Tommy Robinson, AI, and the discontinuity.

Transcript for An Honest Conversation With Tommy Robinson

0:02 – I’ve gone from being spat at to being
0:03 – punched to being hugged to being
0:04 – embraced to have my hand shaken. And
0:06 – that process is now where the country’s
0:08 – at. My cousin when she was 14, my cousin
0:12 – was 14, she woke up naked in a house in
0:15 – Berry Park being raped by loads of
0:16 – bearded men. Remember 77 bomb plot, they
0:19 – picked up their bombs in Luton.
0:20 – Fertilizer bomb plot come out of Luton.
0:22 – Stockholm bomber come out of Luton.
0:24 – Luton was named by the CIA as the
0:26 – epicenter of terrorist atrocities and
0:29 – the planning for Europe. And that’s why
0:31 – I kept asking people, what would you do?
0:33 – >> Tommy, when you look back at some of
0:35 – your behavior, do you think that it’s
0:37 – tarnished your message?
0:38 – >> I had no option, right? Do you think I
0:40 – want to be out fighting? So, I don’t
0:41 – want to be out.
0:42 – >> Well, I do though, Tommy.
0:43 – >> Yeah. Do you?
0:43 – >> You’re a football hooligan, right?
0:44 – >> No. No. I’m I’m 42 years old. When
0:47 – >> But do you see what I’m saying?
0:49 – >> In the Quran, 7% of mine camp is due
0:52 – hatred. 7%. 11% of that book. Mine camp
0:55 – is banned. This isn’t banned. This is
0:57 – taught across the whole country. If they
0:58 – want to implement real hate speech laws,
1:00 – this would be banned. Relax, relax. This
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1:22 – Tommy, been a long time coming, mate.
1:25 – >> Thank you for being here. It’s all
1:26 – right. Uh,
1:27 – >> we’ve got a long conversation ahead of
1:29 – us. Lots to talk about recently. You
1:30 – just said before we started, it’s been
1:32 – the worst week of your life. We, just so
1:34 – people know, we were supposed to
1:36 – interview last week. The more I’m
1:39 – getting ready in the evening thinking
1:40 – about how we’re going to do this
1:41 – interview. Uh, cuz it’s in the morning
1:43 – the next day. And I’m And then there’s a
1:45 – video of you standing next to a guy
1:47 – who’s clearly just been knocked out. I’m
1:48 – going, he’s probably not going to turn
1:50 – up tomorrow. didn’t turn up. Here you
1:52 – are.
1:52 – >> Y
1:53 – >> uh before we get into all that though,
1:54 – the one thing that I think is really
1:57 – important uh is for us just to
1:59 – understand for our audience and for
2:02 – ourselves what’s your story and who you
2:04 – are and how you got here, right? And I
2:06 – think that’s a really big part of it
2:08 – that that gets missed very often. You
2:10 – people kind of have an idea about you as
2:12 – I once did by the way. I will say this,
2:14 – right? Um but they don’t not have the
2:16 – full picture. So let’s talk about that.
2:18 – tell us how why you were here.
2:20 – >> So that idea I remember 2015 was the
2:24 – first chance I get got to give a
2:25 – presentation of my life
2:27 – >> and it was at Oxford University.
2:28 – >> Yeah.
2:29 – >> I walked into Oxford University everyone
2:30 – hated me. I was getting booed, shouted
2:32 – out, screamed at. You know when you go
2:33 – Oxford University debating society, you
2:35 – get a free course meal. I didn’t get any
2:37 – of that. Yeah. I just got invited in but
2:39 – by the end of the presentation I got
2:40 – stand invasion and all the people there
2:42 – said I didn’t know any of this. Yeah.
2:44 – And I brought them back every time to
2:46 – growing up in Lugen because I and I
2:47 – remember saying to the audience, I don’t
2:49 – know where you grew up, but please
2:50 – picture yourself. I’m going to tell you
2:51 – my story, what I saw growing up, what
2:53 – happened to my family members, all the
2:55 – changes I saw, and then ask yourself
2:57 – what you would have done. Keep asking
2:58 – yourself, what would you do if you saw
3:00 – this? So yeah, I was born in 1982 in
3:02 – Lutown. My mom was an Irish immigrant to
3:05 – Len. She’s one of eight uh from a poor a
3:08 – poor family. And I grew up in a town
3:10 – that is one of the most diverse and
3:12 – multicultural towns in Brit in Europe
3:14 – actually in Europe. So I saw firsthand
3:17 – what it’s like to grow up in a
3:18 – multicultural community, but also what
3:20 – it’s like in a town that when I was born
3:22 – had one mosque in 1982 and now has 45.
3:26 – So we’re nearly at a 50% Pakistani
3:29 – population of Muslims. And I saw the
3:32 – problems from that and I spoke about
3:33 – them. And I guess when people say I’m
3:35 – guilty of things, I’d say yeah, I’m
3:36 – guilty of being a decade ahead. But
3:38 – that’s not because I had some golden
3:40 – light bulb or or or could see into the
3:42 – future. I just saw my hometown. I saw
3:45 – from growing up as a child to what had
3:47 – happened. And when I grew up and and
3:50 – again I’ll start off. So if you line all
3:52 – my friends up and you get 30 of us, the
3:54 – majority of us are sons of immigrants.
3:56 – Whether it be St. Lucian, Bulgarian,
3:58 – Italian, Irish, all of us are sons of
3:59 – immigrants. Yeah. I went to school. Some
4:01 – of the best people I met growing up,
4:03 – some of the people I love from growing
4:04 – up are Muslim. But that doesn’t change
4:07 – that there’s a massive problem.
4:09 – >> So talk to us about that, Tommy. You you
4:10 – mentioned, look, I I imagine most people
4:13 – listening to this can imagine what
4:15 – happens when a place goes from being
4:17 – mostly one group of people to mostly
4:19 – another group of people, right? And we
4:21 – have friends, we have a close friend of
4:23 – ours who grew up in Bradford, right? And
4:25 – he talks about what he experienced as a
4:27 – white guy in a mostly Pakistani school,
4:29 – right? Most people don’t think about
4:31 – that. So when you talk about problems,
4:33 – right? What do you mean? like give us
4:35 – the examples.
4:36 – >> So I mean that going to school. So when
4:37 – I went and I noticed it when I got to
4:39 – high school or even just I talk about
4:40 – when I was we used to have an under 18s
4:42 – nightclub and when people talk about
4:44 – racism and victim of racism. So I’ve
4:46 – been a victim of racism untold times. I
4:49 – remember going as a young group of lads
4:50 – going to an under 19s nightclub where we
4:52 – had to walk through the town. We’d get
4:54 – robbed. We’d get spat. We’d get in the
4:56 – end we had to hide our money in our
4:57 – socks because every time you went you
4:59 – got robbed and mucked by Pakistani
5:01 – gangs. You get called a dirty gula.
5:03 – little white boy slapped around. So, so
5:05 – when people talk about racism, I think
5:07 – I’ve experienced it my whole life. I’ve
5:08 – seen it my whole life.
5:09 – >> I’ve seen and when we’re at school, so
5:12 – if you come into our high school, well,
5:13 – I went to a high school called Putridge
5:14 – High School, which was a still still a
5:17 – majority non-Muslim school, but then
5:18 – they bust children from the Muslim
5:20 – community up on buses into the school.
5:23 – Now, when you went into our school, and
5:25 – there’s never been a racial tension in
5:27 – Lumen, never seen it. Never seen racism.
5:30 – The town is divided by religious lines.
5:32 – That’s it. It’s white, white and blacks
5:34 – like this growing up and it always was,
5:36 – especially in Luton’s football scene,
5:37 – which we can get on to. All of our
5:39 – groups of lads were a very diverse bunch
5:41 – of lads. Always have been. Luton’s
5:43 – football hooligan element was always
5:44 – seen. The actual racist clubs from the
5:47 – 70s and ‘ 80s would always have a big
5:49 – day out in Luton because Luton’s lads
5:51 – that would be resisting them always
5:52 – white and black because that’s what
5:53 – Luton has always been. But there was
5:55 – never really racial tensions at school
5:58 – and we didn’t create this Muslim
6:00 – playground. That was the front
6:01 – playground. non-Muslim playground at the
6:03 – back. So even in the playground, it was
6:06 – divided. When you walk into the school
6:08 – dinner hall, say go into the school
6:09 – dinner hall and when you walk in, you’d
6:11 – have everyone sitting in a mixed,
6:12 – Chinese, Indians, blacks, a everyone
6:15 – sitting at tables together. In the
6:17 – corner, there’d be 10 tables of Muslims.
6:20 – That’s just how it was.
6:21 – >> And the playground, is that the school
6:23 – mandating that or is it just how kids
6:24 – saw themselves?
6:25 – >> That’s just how it divided. That’s just
6:26 – how it divided. And if one Muslim got in
6:29 – any fight, 100 of them got in a fight.
6:31 – So something very different. I’ve never
6:33 – seen that until I got to high school.
6:34 – And then I got to high school and see 10
6:36 – or 20 men booting one kid. And I’d never
6:39 – seen that cuz people had a fight before
6:42 – and they just had a fight. Now
6:43 – literally. And then when you get outside
6:44 – the school gates afterwards, if you say
6:46 – when we were 13, 14 and we had some
6:48 – trouble with some Pakistani kids at
6:49 – school and troubles going on. When you
6:51 – come outside school, there’d be 30 men.
6:52 – Men. There’s no 30 black men or white
6:55 – men coming up to school. They’re all at
6:56 – work. Yeah. But there’s 30 Pakistani men
6:58 – waiting outside school to confront the
7:00 – 12, 13, 14y old kids. So I saw that also
7:04 – at school. I very quickly saw young
7:06 – girls that were at our school were go we
7:08 – didn’t we viewed them at the time as
7:09 – children. I’ll be honest, we used to
7:11 – view them as snags at that time
7:14 – >> because the girls who were 13 were
7:15 – getting picked up by Pakistani men
7:16 – outside. They’d come up to the school
7:18 – gates and literally pick the girls up in
7:19 – school uniforms and the girls would be
7:21 – going out and giving [  ] to taxi 7:22 – drivers and we’d all know what’s going 7:24 – on. But we never viewed them as victims 7:26 – at that time as children. We were 7:28 – children and they were going out 7:29 – basically they were victims of this 7:30 – grooming gang. My cousin when she was 7:33 – 14. My cousin was 14, she woke up naked 7:36 – in a house in Berry Park being raped by 7:38 – loads of bearded men. She run out on the 7:40 – streets and the prostitutes rang her 7:42 – dad. The street prostitutes rang her 7:43 – dad. She was just a child. 7:45 – >> Sorry to interrupt. Tommy, when was 7:46 – this? This was when I was for when I was 7:48 – 13 years old. 7:49 – >> So that would have been 96 or 95 7:52 – >> 96 95 and and a lot I I do this at 7:54 – Oxford University. A lot happened in my 7:56 – life at that time which whatever happens 7:58 – in your life shapes your world view 7:59 – shapes your view. You understand? Even 8:01 – there was a murder of a gentleman called 8:02 – Mark Sharp. Google this murder. Yeah. 8:05 – Mark Sharp was with his son. His son was 8:06 – my age probably when I was 11 12. His 8:09 – son was my age. He was friends with my 8:11 – uncles and he’s drove past and he’s he’s 8:13 – had a bit of a road rage with a car full 8:15 – of Pakistanis and he’s called them a 8:16 – wanker as he’s gone past. 8:18 – >> They’ve followed him. They’ve called for 8:20 – reinforcements. More more cars have 8:22 – turned up as he’s got out with his 8:23 – 12-year-old son to get a takeaway. 8:25 – They’ve jumped out. They’ve beaten with 8:26 – bats, beaten with poles. There was an 8:28 – explosion of violence in Luden that we 8:30 – didn’t understand at the time coming 8:32 – from the Muslim community. When we go 8:33 – back and speak to the elders in in our 8:35 – community, it seemed to have been 8:37 – stemming from the Gulf invasion after 8:39 – the G something was happening in Luton 8:41 – which none of us knew about. Yeah. And 8:42 – it’s only later as we as I get in in my 8:44 – life which I’ll get to that I started to 8:46 – understand, oh this is what’s made it. 8:48 – This is what this is what this is cuz 8:50 – there was always something different 8:51 – which I didn’t put down to the Muslim 8:52 – community because at the time it weren’t 8:54 – about them being Muslims. It was just 8:55 – the Pakistanis are very different. 8:57 – That’s how I saw it. But Mark Sharp they 8:58 – they snapped a knife off in his head and 9:00 – killed him. He he survived for three 9:01 – four days in hospital. I remember his 9:03 – family left the town. The Pakistanis all 9:06 – went on the run. They got them back in 9:08 – the end from Pakistan. I think they got 9:09 – four years. It’s not justice. They got 9:11 – four years for a brutal murder where six 9:14 – to eight of them jumped all over him, 9:15 – snapped knife knives off his head in 9:17 – front of his son. So I remember seeing 9:19 – all these things and then my cousin when 9:21 – she was being prostituted in the end, 9:23 – the police just say she’s a drug addict 9:25 – cuz she was she was on heroin cuz they 9:26 – got her hooked on heroine. now and I 9:29 – remember even when I got a chance on 9:30 – Jeremy Paxman years later and I remember 9:32 – saying to Jeremy Paxman when I went on 9:34 – in 2010 and it’s now it hasn’t aged well 9:37 – for him and when I went on the the chat 9:39 – show I said they’re picking our our 9:41 – daughters up from schools they’re 9:42 – picking our sisters up from schools 9:44 – they’re g the gangs are operating so 9:45 – different they’re not challenged and he 9:47 – was like really you expect us to believe 9:49 – this I remember saying Jeremy do you 9:50 – know anyone who’s hooked on her sold to 9:52 – him by Muslim gang you don’t I do you 9:53 – know anyone who’s been killed by a 9:54 – Muslim gang you don’t I do any girls 9:56 – that now wear full nickar s that don’t 9:58 – aren’t allowed to see their family. You 9:59 – don’t, do you? I do. Do you know anyone 10:01 – who’s been prostituted and groomed and 10:03 – you don’t do you? I do. Yeah. I said, so 10:05 – I don’t expect you to understand, but I 10:06 – do expect you to listen cuz this is 10:08 – happening in the reason why the English 10:10 – Defense League has gone bang is because 10:12 – what I’ve seen is what’s is mirrored 10:14 – across every working-class community in 10:16 – this country. If Islam was to evolve, 10:18 – which it needs to evolve to fit in with 10:20 – to fit in with Western democracy, which 10:21 – is clearly not clearly there’s a 10:23 – problem. Clearly the English Defense 10:24 – League is a phenomenon that swept this 10:26 – country. And with with the issues I’m 10:28 – talking about, Jeremy, if I ask you, do 10:30 – you know anyone that’s hooked on heroin 10:31 – sold by Muslim gangs? You probably 10:33 – don’t. I do. Do you know any beautiful 10:34 – girls that you went to school with that 10:35 – are now wearing a burka that that don’t 10:37 – see their family? Probably don’t. I do. 10:39 – Do you know anyone who’s been murdered 10:40 – by a Muslim gang? You probably don’t. I 10:42 – do. Do you know any 15-year-old girls 10:43 – that you know that you’ve grown up with 10:45 – that have been raped or pimped? You 10:46 – don’t. So, I don’t expect you to 10:47 – understand the issue. 10:48 – >> These are all personal issues of yours. 10:50 – personal issues in towns and cities like 10:52 – mine that are happening and they’re not 10:54 – happening with the seek community. 10:55 – They’re not happening with the Jewish 10:56 – community 10:57 – >> and indeed they’re not happening with 10:58 – most Muslims. 10:59 – >> No, they’re happening within the Islamic 11:01 – community. That’s what I’m saying that 11:02 – it’s an Islamic problem and when I’m 11:04 – just a simple person, so I’m just a 11:06 – normal person, but when I’m looking at I 11:07 – have to look for where this hatred is 11:09 – coming from. 11:09 – >> So, are you seriously suggesting there 11:11 – aren’t white drug dealers and there 11:13 – aren’t white gangs? 11:14 – >> Of course, I’m not seek gangs or any 11:16 – other kind of 11:16 – >> No, I’m not. But I’m saying some of 11:18 – these specific issues are coming from 11:20 – the Islamic community. Solely the 11:22 – Islamic community, terrorists wanting to 11:23 – blow us up. Constant hostile activity 11:25 – towards our youth. All these problems 11:27 – and from from sitting back there’s got 11:29 – to be something it’s coming from. You 11:31 – see, none of the other communities are 11:32 – spreading it. So we’re a symptom of the 11:34 – problem. The English Defense League, 11:36 – >> you’re claiming the community is 11:38 – spreading it. Actually, what we’re 11:39 – talking about here, 11:41 – >> we Yes. Exactly. As you could talk about 11:43 – members of the white community doing all 11:45 – sorts of atrocious things. Yeah, but not 11:46 – not not 24 year old groups of 10 of them 11:49 – hanging around outside school gates. 11:51 – >> You’ve never seen a white gang 11:52 – >> and purposely targeting 11:53 – >> never seen a white gang. 11:54 – >> Are we going to pretend that Muslim 11:56 – groups are not out there purposely 11:57 – targeting our youth and pimping them? 11:59 – Are we going to pretend it’s not? 12:00 – >> You’re not pretending white people 12:01 – aren’t doing that. 12:02 – >> Then not not in the same manner, not in 12:03 – the same group. They’re saying it’s a 12:05 – it’s a cultural thing which is going on 12:08 – within their community. 12:09 – >> But that was so I grew up in Luton. I’ve 12:12 – seen all these problems and again I’m 12:13 – going to reiterate again that doesn’t 12:16 – mean because some of the best lads I 12:17 – know were Muslim lads. Yeah. At school. 12:20 – But when there’s a divide and I I’ll 12:22 – explain the story again. When there’s a 12:23 – divide something very different happens 12:25 – with this. I remember being in coming 12:28 – out of a nightclub in Luton and I 12:29 – remember seeing about six Muslims 12:31 – beating one man and it was my my ex-wife 12:33 – said stop him. Stop him. I remember 12:36 – going in to pull him off him and then 12:38 – they attack you and then as it’s all 12:40 – going on a Muslim friend of mine stood 12:43 – on their side against us and you didn’t 12:46 – even know him and afterwards I spoke to 12:48 – and and the whole town’s going the whole 12:50 – there’s all this chaos going on it’s us 12:52 – and them the divide you can think your 12:54 – friends it’s us and them when that divid 12:57 – line comes it’s us and them and that 12:59 – divide which I never understood again 13:01 – I’ll tell you the moment I understood it 13:04 – but all this is going on I’m seeing 13:05 – Seeing lots of changes in the town, 13:07 – seeing a level of aggression, a level of 13:09 – hate, race, criminality. Fast forward to 13:12 – 200 to when I’m 19. I think I’m doing my 13:15 – apprenticeship. I left school. I left 13:18 – school at 16. I got an air I got an an 13:20 – apprenticeship as an air and autoco 13:21 – engineer at Britannia Airways. I went to 13:24 – work there and I saw Do you remember the 13:27 – Belelham school massacre? 13:28 – >> Yeah. So 13:29 – >> in Russia. 13:29 – >> In Russia. That was my 13:32 – >> for people who don’t know Chetchin 13:33 – terrorists took over a school. Uh they 13:35 – held it I think for one or two days and 13:37 – then the Russian special forces went in 13:39 – and it was a blood bath. 13:41 – >> And for people who don’t know that’s 13:42 – coming to the UK. I think that’s so this 13:45 – happens church. So Chetchin terrorists 13:47 – take over the school and I can still see 13:48 – it. Yeah. Because and this was my real 13:51 – you know everyone’s had that moment that 13:52 – wakes them up. Everyone’s had that 13:54 – moment that I think a lot of people 13:55 – would wish they could just close their 13:56 – eyes to I think once you’re awake to 13:58 – this and you understand some of the 13:59 – problems, you can’t you can’t turn off 14:01 – from it. But they take over a school. 14:03 – Not one Muslim, not two, a whole massive 14:05 – gang of them. Yeah. Jihadists take over 14:07 – a school. The parents then get phone 14:09 – calls. So they know their children are 14:11 – in the school. They know terrorists have 14:12 – got their kids. The parents come to the 14:14 – school gates. The military there, the 14:16 – the Russian army there. And the parents 14:18 – are outside. And I can the women are 14:19 – dropping on their knees holding their 14:21 – hands heads as then you start hearing 14:23 – the Muslims butchering their kids and 14:25 – they’re killing them and butchering 14:26 – them. And I remember watching it going, 14:28 – “What the hell is this? What the what 14:30 – the hell is going on here?” Yeah. Two. 14:33 – So I that was my moment to start looking 14:34 – at Islam. And two weeks after this, I 14:37 – saw a group in Luton called Almrain. The 14:41 – the leader, the second in command of 14:42 – that group was a a gentleman called 14:44 – Safal Islam, which translates as sword 14:46 – of Islam. He’s in a chicken shop in 14:48 – Luton, and he’s doing an interview. And 14:50 – in that interview he says a attack like 14:53 – Beaslam would be justified on a British 14:55 – school. 14:57 – And this is when I’m probably 14:59 – I don’t know I might have been 19. Might 15:02 – have been 19 I can’t remember. I was 15:03 – young and I’ll be honest and from my 15:05 – background growing up in Luton. As I 15:07 – said Luton is a so people understand the 15:08 – town. It’s probably one of the most 15:10 – povertystricken towns in the country. 15:12 – It’s a rough and violent town. It has a 15:14 – lot of problems. Take Islam out of the 15:15 – equation. It’s still got a million 15:17 – problems. Yeah. It’s um and growing up 15:20 – there, I’d say chisel’s who you become. 15:24 – But I grew up and I and I looked up to 15:28 – my uncles rule lead members of Luton’s 15:30 – football hooligan scene. So whilst I 15:32 – went to school, stayed out of trouble. I 15:34 – was always in the group that was was 15:36 – getting in trouble, the likely lads. But 15:38 – I never got involved in any criminality 15:40 – whereas a lot of the kids I grew up with 15:41 – did. my mom probably because of my mom 15:44 – and my parent and her parenting. My mom 15:46 – was strict but um I left done my 15:48 – apprenticeship but when I saw this I was 15:50 – a young lad full of testosterone and and 15:52 – I used to go to the football element 15:54 – with the with Lutontown football scene 15:55 – and when I watched this Muslim say this 15:58 – I thought who’s this man 16:00 – >> and I start then I looked at him and I 16:02 – understood al-rain now remember there 16:05 – wasn’t a terrorist attack in the UK till 16:06 – what 2007 was it 16:08 – >> so there hadn’t been terrorist attack 16:10 – there hadn’t been no one understood 16:12 – jihad 16:13 – >> I look at this group almishadine 16:16 – who are now a prescribed terrorist 16:17 – organization, but at the time they 16:18 – weren’t. And I look and they’re holding 16:20 – weekly uh events in our town center 16:23 – outside Don Miller’s bakery, outside the 16:25 – local bakery. So I looked at them, the 16:27 – head and I looked at they were global 16:29 – caliphate network and their head office 16:31 – was on Biscuit Road, which is where we 16:34 – from. And it’s like who the hell are 16:36 – this? And in my presentation at Oxford 16:38 – University, I showed so after September 16:40 – 11th, like when you went to your local 16:42 – shops, I don’t know what it was like, 16:44 – but my local shops, there was p not 16:46 – pictures of the 19 suicide bombers with 16:48 – magnificent 19. It was celebrated in 16:50 – Lon. It was celebrated at local college. 16:52 – They held a march for the anniversary, 16:54 – the first year through the town center. 16:55 – So it was celebrated September 11th was 16:57 – celebrated 16:58 – >> openly. People just openly celebrated. 17:01 – Look at look at my look at my 17:02 – presentation Oxford University. They I 17:04 – show the posters at my shop and all over 17:06 – the phone boxes, all over the shops. 17:08 – Magnificent running. Yeah, it was 17:10 – celebrated. And so I look at looked at 17:13 – this group and I went down the town 17:14 – center the next Saturday. And I’ll be 17:15 – honest because on a Saturday back then 17:19 – um as a young man there might be a 17:21 – hundred of us on a Saturday that would 17:23 – go to Luton football 17:24 – >> and we travel around the country going 17:25 – to football together as young men. And I 17:27 – looked at this group and when I went 17:28 – down there there’s a police officer 17:29 – there and I said and and they were 17:32 – openly like now it’s now they try and 17:34 – hide it. They were openly recruiting to 17:36 – send people to fight against our armed 17:38 – forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. They 17:39 – were openly promoting jihad. It was 17:41 – remember this is at the time when Abu 17:43 – Hamza hook. 17:44 – >> Yeah. 17:44 – >> When he was holding his seminars in 17:45 – Finley Park 17:46 – >> when he had hundreds of men on the floor 17:48 – in the road 17:49 – >> calling for war against Britain. 17:51 – Remember they weren’t getting nicked on 17:53 – hate speech or anything like that. They 17:54 – were just allowed to do it. Yeah. So as 17:56 – I looked at this group, I thought 17:58 – they’ve been operating a mass network 18:00 – have been operating for 20 years in my 18:02 – town. Which then explains and I tried I 18:05 – tried having this I sat down with Bims 18:06 – when we started the English Defense 18:07 – League and explained to him your 18:10 – community, the Islamic community is very 18:12 – entrenched. It’s inward-looking. You’re 18:14 – all here. Yeah. Now within this little 18:17 – community, you’ve got let’s let’s just 18:19 – say 200. We’ve got more. 18:21 – >> Let’s say 200 pure radicals. Yeah. who 18:24 – are working 24 hours, 7 days a week and 18:27 – they’re working to promote jihad, 18:29 – supremacy, intolerance against the 18:31 – non-Muslim community. So once they’re 18:33 – operating all these all these years, the 18:35 – explosions of violence that are coming 18:37 – out and they weren’t just coming out 18:38 – onto us in the streets. Remember 77 bomb 18:40 – plot, they picked up their bombs in 18:41 – Luton. Fertilizer bomb plot come out of 18:44 – Luton. Stockholm bomber come out of 18:46 – Luton. The Luton was named by the CIA as 18:49 – the epicenter of terrorist atrocities 18:51 – for and the planning for Europe. That’s 18:54 – Lin. So when people are saying I said 18:56 – well you know these lads like the ones 18:57 – who were killed fighting for ISIS the 18:59 – ones who um safe for Islam who’s done 19:01 – jail for terrorism. Roger Ibrahim the 19:04 – ginger convert. I used to hang around 19:05 – with him as a kid. So we’re not talking 19:07 – about when you read about terrorists to 19:09 – some people this is a million miles 19:10 – away. I went to school with that mug. 19:12 – Yeah. 19:12 – >> I queue up next to him in the bank. 19:14 – >> His sister lives lives around the corner 19:16 – from me. Yeah. So this isn’t a million 19:18 – miles away from us. So when they when in 19:20 – 2004 no in 2004 I went downtown center 19:24 – police were there I said what is this 19:25 – how are they allowed to do this she said 19:27 – it’s free speech I said okay let’s see 19:30 – if it’s free speech next week and then 19:32 – the next week I organized my first ever 19:33 – protest which was called ban the looting 19:36 – Taliban that’s what I called it and 19:38 – >> Tommy can we pause there for one second 19:39 – because one thing that I I wanted to ask 19:41 – you about um and I honestly I’m not 19:44 – coming at it from a place of judgment 19:45 – but I do think it’s an important part of 19:47 – the conversation you mentioned the 19:49 – football hooligans, right, which you 19:50 – were part of a lot of people. It’s a 19:52 – very, it’s not a uniquely British thing 19:54 – now that you get these ultras in Italy, 19:56 – you get them in Russia. 19:58 – >> Yeah. What that’s but but it is kind of 20:01 – to most people who don’t know about it. 20:04 – They really don’t know about it, right? 20:05 – So, can you explain the firms and the 20:08 – hooligans? Cuz you say you go around the 20:11 – country supporting Luden, but it’s more 20:12 – than that, right? these young lads who 20:14 – like to to get to a football game and 20:16 – have a fight with others, right? Is that 20:18 – fair? 20:18 – >> That’s fair. 20:19 – >> If you’re someone who values free 20:21 – inquiry and independent thinking, which, 20:23 – let’s be honest, is why you’re probably 20:25 – watching trigonometry, then our sponsor, 20:27 – Venice AI, is the tool for you. Here’s a 20:30 – hot take. AI is exploding right now. But 20:33 – seriously, most of the tools out there 20:35 – are just clones with slightly different 20:37 – skins. Venice AI is different. 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So, if you’re over 18 and not 21:22 – offended by grown-up content or ideas, 21:24 – you’ll need to sign up for a pro 21:26 – account. 21:27 – If you want to use AI without fear of 21:30 – handing over your thoughts, ideas, or 21:31 – personal information to a corporation or 21:33 – the government, you can get 20% off a 21:36 – pro plan using our link 21:38 – venice.ai/trigonometry. 21:40 – You’ll find the link in the description 21:41 – of this episode or type it in v 21:44 – n.ai/trigonometry 21:48 – and see what you’ve been missing. And 21:50 – now back to the show. 21:52 – >> That’s fair, which is going to sound 21:53 – moronic. So to most people watching 21:55 – this, they’re going to think idiots. 21:57 – Yeah, absolutely do. But remember, I’m 22:00 – 42y old 42 years old now and I’m a 22:02 – father of three. 22:03 – >> I was 20. 22:04 – >> I was 18, 17, 16. 22:06 – >> Young men Yeah. Young men finding their 22:08 – identity together, which I’d say I found 22:10 – my identity going to football. I found 22:11 – it. Yeah. And when I say I found it, I I 22:14 – look at the problem in Lum and I and and 22:16 – I and I look at the erosion of our 22:18 – identity as young English men. It’s 22:20 – gone. And I’ll give an example. When 22:23 – it’s St. Patrick’s Day in Lurum, there’s 22:24 – a three-day festival for St. Patrick’s 22:26 – Day. When it’s St. Lucian Day, Yeah. we 22:29 – have a massive tents, park, fairgrounds, 22:32 – everything. Yeah. When it’s Eid, the 22:35 – whole place is locked off. Everything. 22:37 – They’ve got fairs, they’ve got 22:38 – everything. When it’s St. George’s Day, 22:39 – it’s banned. 22:41 – >> Yeah. 22:41 – >> So, we’re made to feel ashamed. Anyway, 22:44 – I remember it was St. George’s Day and 22:46 – they the local the school high school. 22:48 – Now, do you remember the Trojan horse 22:50 – plot where they the Muslims have 22:51 – infiltrated the schools and got on the 22:53 – boards to change? No. Yeah. So um what’s 22:55 – his name? Michael Gove was leading on 22:57 – it. He was he done very well trying to 22:59 – expose it. So the Trojan or plot. So the 23:01 – best head teacher in the school in Nick 23:04 – he come out and the girl come in wearing 23:05 – the full nicab and he sent her home and 23:09 – Sher Blair represent her. They sued the 23:11 – school. Yeah. And when they sued the 23:13 – school and was redeemed all because that 23:15 – girl was which Sher Blair represent her 23:17 – but that girl was the sister of one of 23:18 – the main terrorists in Luton. One of the 23:19 – main extremists in Luton. Yeah. So then 23:21 – they protest outside school gates and 23:23 – they put pressure on the school and in 23:24 – the end Mr. Kelly I think his name was 23:26 – who was a great head teacher the one the 23:28 – best at that school they ousted him he 23:30 – had to go because he stood up against 23:31 – the nick in the school it’s insane but 23:33 – this was going on that same school then 23:36 – few years later when it’s St. George’s 23:37 – day they told all we we’ve just seen the 23:39 – recent thing with the British culture 23:40 – day where the girl got sent home in the 23:42 – Union Jack dress. Did you see this all 23:44 – over the news? 23:45 – >> That’s nothing new, right? So young 23:47 – children in school in Luton, they sent 23:49 – out letters saying if anyone brings in 23:51 – the emblem of St. George on St. George’s 23:53 – Day, 23:54 – >> you’ll be sent home. So kids, our 23:56 – parents sent them with just a little pin 23:58 – badge with St. George’s flag on it, 24:00 – you’re going home. Yeah. Cuz my mates’s 24:01 – kids were at school at the time. So I 24:03 – rang the school when Pakistan won the 24:05 – cricket. They had a massive celebration 24:07 – in the school. 24:08 – >> Pakistani flags everywhere. Yeah. 24:10 – >> It’s our national day. What message are 24:12 – you sending to the children now and all 24:14 – this? The reason why I’m explaining this 24:15 – cuz it plays a a part I guess into us as 24:18 – young men feeling like we don’t have an 24:20 – identity in the town. Now on a Saturday 24:22 – we’d come together from that estate, 24:24 – that estate, that estate, that estate as 24:26 – young English lads and we go to Luton 24:28 – together and form a brotherhood where we 24:30 – travel the country. And yeah, I think 24:32 – I’m quite tribal. I think we are as as 24:35 – men and humans, we’re tribal. If you go 24:37 – to certain places in the Amazon now, I 24:39 – bet one tribe fights the other tribe for 24:40 – no reason at all. Just they fight. Yeah, 24:42 – >> that that’s what it was like growing up 24:44 – in Luton. Our school would fight that 24:45 – school every week there’d be fights. Our 24:48 – town and I guess that developed onto our 24:50 – town would fight that town. Our football 24:52 – club would fight that football club. 24:54 – Now, people understand because it does 24:56 – sound moronic. 24:58 – Speaking about now, lads go to football 25:01 – and even if they’re not fighting, it’s 25:03 – giving them a sense of identity. It’s a 25:05 – culture. It’s a culture. 25:06 – >> They’re having a good day out. And when 25:09 – men are going to football and fighting, 25:10 – they’re not pulling out knives. They’re 25:12 – not. You’ll get 20 lads, 20 lads in a 25:15 – back street and they’re turning up and 25:16 – having a punch up for each other. Again, 25:18 – I get it. If you’re watching, you think 25:19 – it sounds moronic, but unfortunately, in 25:22 – a town like Luluten that was plagued by 25:24 – Islamic gangs taking over everything. 25:26 – Yeah. All these migrant gangs taking 25:28 – over everything. Well, on a Saturday 25:30 – there’s 100 English lads on a Saturday. 25:32 – Yeah. So I used that 100 English lads in 25:35 – 2004 to tell this group Amazine, you’re 25:39 – not in the town anymore, lads. Yeah. So 25:41 – and we turned up and it was called ban 25:43 – the luton Taliban. Now I made leaflets 25:45 – at that time and I actually went so 25:47 – before I’ve done my Oxford Union 25:48 – president. 25:49 – >> Tommy, can I just stop you there? Just 25:50 – to make it clear for people when you say 25:51 – English lads, it’s not white lads, it’s 25:53 – white and black. 25:54 – >> No, white and black. Yeah. I don’t Yeah, 25:55 – I don’t see 25:56 – >> because people could see people think 25:58 – No, I don’t see color. White, black, and 25:59 – Asian lads. Yeah, we got seek lads in 26:01 – the in the group. So, I don’t see color 26:04 – anyway when I’m I and I’ve never I’ve 26:06 – sometimes journalists have said that 26:07 – when they’ve come here and said, “Bloody 26:08 – hell, there’s a lot.” I don’t see that. 26:10 – I’ve just grown up in that. White 26:12 – English or minority loot. Yeah. I’ve 26:14 – just grown up with that. not bothered if 26:15 – I but then I so we’d all come together 26:19 – and we’ done this demonstration and I 26:20 – went when I was doing my Oxford Union 26:22 – presentation I went into the the library 26:24 – and I went back through all the old 26:26 – newspapers cuz stupidly I stood 26:28 – barefaced with this leaflet. I made 26:30 – leaflets. I went around the whole town 26:32 – and basically said on Saturday we’re 26:34 – coming out against this lot. Yeah. 26:36 – >> Now in the leaflets my rhetoric has 26:38 – never changed. We’re sitting here now 26:40 – thinking the country’s ch I think 26:43 – shifted totally shifted and my rhetoric 26:46 – is the same as it was in 2004. So my 26:49 – first demonstration which I dug the 26:50 – leaflet they they basically put the 26:52 – leaflet that I made on the front page of 26:53 – the Luton news the newspaper. So I went 26:55 – into library got it to show people at 26:57 – Oxford University. Here’s what I said in 26:59 – 2004. Now in 2004 what I said whites and 27:02 – blacks are being racially and 27:04 – religiously targeted in this town. Yeah. 27:06 – They’re being attacked violently. the 27:08 – Pakistani gangs and I named the gang. 27:10 – They’re called the Gambinos. 27:13 – >> Very original lads for Pakistani, 27:15 – >> but they’re gangs called the Gambinos 27:17 – and they’re 100 strong Pakistani mob 27:19 – from the Muslim community who use herin 27:21 – and what I said is they’re using heroine 27:23 – as a weapon against us. Yeah, cuz they 27:25 – are right. They’re coming into our 27:26 – states with heroin and they’re 27:27 – destroying estates. And in fact, back in 27:30 – when I was a few years younger, there 27:31 – were little riots in an estate in Lulu 27:33 – and Muslims come from all over the 27:34 – country for these riots. Yeah. But it 27:36 – was one estate fighting against them. 27:37 – And that died because they bought the 27:39 – herin the estate. They d they damaged 27:41 – families and people tried to resist it. 27:43 – Yeah. But the police crushed the English 27:44 – lads basically at that time. 27:46 – >> But as this is going on, so we the the 27:49 – leaflet said whites and blacks being 27:50 – religious religiously and racially 27:52 – target. So I named the Gambinos in 2004 27:55 – and I say that they use heroin to 27:57 – prostitute our youth to then use them in 28:00 – pedophilic gangs. That’s grooming. 28:03 – That’s now labeled as grooming. This was 28:05 – 2004. And I said, if we know the shops 28:07 – that are doing it and we know who which 28:09 – men are doing it and we know which 28:10 – businesses are doing it because they all 28:12 – use the businesses, you know, we’ve this 28:13 – is now common practice. We know which 28:15 – taxi it’s taxi ranks, it’s takeaways, 28:17 – but we’ve known that the whole time 28:18 – growing up. We’re looking at it 28:19 – thinking, well, look what they’re doing. 28:21 – Yeah. Nothing’s happening. You don’t 28:23 – crush them. You crush us all the time. 28:25 – So, at that time, I made the leaflet and 28:27 – I stood and about, I don’t know, 28:28 – probably 200 lads turned up. 200 young 28:31 – lads turned up at that day and they 28:33 – weren’t there. the the the extremist g 28:35 – mob that it did didn’t turn up that 28:36 – days. I thought it’s worked. It’s 28:38 – worked. Yeah. They’re not here. But then 28:40 – it didn’t work because I done it 28:41 – barefaced as Steven Yaxley Lenon. Yeah. 28:44 – I stood up and I done it. I read out the 28:46 – leaflet on the town hall and boy I was 28:49 – expecting I don’t know what I was 28:51 – expecting but the fallout from that 28:53 – probably cuz the I probably brought a 28:54 – lot of heat on the gangs because I named 28:56 – them. Yeah. 28:57 – >> And and this was 2004 and I show at 28:59 – Oxford University City presentation. 29:01 – Fast forward 2007, the Daily Mirror run 29:03 – a national story on chemical jihad and 29:06 – they named the gang in Luton who are 29:08 – working with the extremist terrorist 29:10 – groups funding them. Yeah. So they’re 29:12 – working hand in hand. The street gangs 29:14 – working with terrorists which is why I 29:15 – when I come out against this all the 29:17 – young little Pakistani mobs I was the 29:19 – target after this. I was a target and if 29:22 – I wanted to go out on the town for the 29:23 – next few years I had to go out and tweet 29:24 – lads. So I learned very quickly but I 29:26 – also had a lesson growing up in my life 29:29 – with the Pakistani community that if you 29:32 – show or the Muslim community if you show 29:34 – them any weakness they’re going to run 29:36 – all over you. It’s like when I start so 29:38 – if you show them any fear they’re going 29:39 – to run all over you. There’s only one 29:40 – language they understand. There’s only 29:41 – one thing they respect they respect and 29:43 – it’s strength not cowardice not 29:46 – appeasement they actually respect. I 29:47 – have Muslims now shake my hand in the 29:49 – town who don’t like me. I don’t lie to 29:51 – you Tommy. I respect you and you stand 29:53 – on your values. But so this is 2004. I 29:56 – organized this protest in my name. Um 29:58 – and the fallout from it comes comes at 30:01 – me big. They smashed my mom’s house up. 30:03 – I was targeted by them. We had I’ll be 30:05 – just being honest as young football 30:07 – lads. We had clashes with their gangs 30:09 – then after that for years. For years. 30:11 – Yeah. But it got to a sort of truths 30:13 – point after a few years because there 30:16 – there was clashes either side. It got to 30:18 – a truce point and I knew some of the 30:19 – their gangs because I went to school 30:21 – with some of them. Yeah. But it’s like 30:22 – no, you’re not you’re not you’re 30:24 – absolutely taking the P and I’d seen so 30:27 – much in the and I’m I’m only giving you 30:29 – a little little two seconds of growing 30:32 – up in Luton of what I’ve seen all the 30:34 – problems and the wrongdoings and the the 30:36 – and and in Oxford University I showed 30:38 – there were 68 attacks against against 30:40 – non-Muslim houses in the in the area of 30:43 – Berry Park. You’ve got to watch if you 30:44 – watch the presentation you’ll see. Now, 30:46 – the Howards were 88 years old, an old 30:48 – white couple. They don’t they don’t 30:49 – repair their windows anymore. Yeah. They 30:51 – did they stopped repairing their windows 30:52 – because they just get smashed again. 30:54 – Palmer, who’s rest in peace, cuz I know 30:56 – the lady died recently, but I know I 30:57 – know her son. He’s a her son’s one of 30:59 – the most respected black men in London. 31:00 – Yeah. Now, and I grew up looking up to 31:02 – the man. Yeah. Now, he at that time his 31:06 – mom’s house had been attacked and the 31:07 – police done nothing. And the reason 31:09 – they’re getting attacked cuz members of 31:10 – the Muslim community wanted them out 31:12 – because they were non-Muslims living in 31:13 – the Muslim community. Now there’s 31:15 – there’s actually national news stories 31:16 – on this back then. And when we sat when 31:18 – we went to football, our football 31:19 – hooligan leazison officer because every 31:21 – football club has a officer whose job it 31:23 – is to understand the hooligans, know who 31:25 – they are, get intelligence. He pulled us 31:27 – aside and said, just going to tell you 31:29 – honestly, you need 200 men down there. 31:31 – He goes, they’re not going to listen to 31:32 – you. You need 200 men. That’s our police 31:35 – telling us nothing’s going to happen 31:37 – here. Yeah. Unless you get men together. 31:39 – And there was a game against Watchtow. 31:40 – This is going back then as all these 31:41 – attacks were going on and about 230 31:43 – looting lads come out and there was a 31:45 – bit of trouble that day but it was in 31:47 – response to the attacks the continued 31:48 – attacks. Then the police launched 31:50 – investigations then the police started 31:53 – dealing with it only then because they 31:55 – don’t otherwise. So this has gone on 31:57 – 2004 first demonstration 2009 in between 32:01 – this period I was an aircraft engineer. 32:04 – I’m then now by 2009 I’m running a 32:07 – successful um plumbing business. I’ve 32:09 – got a a sunbed shop. Yeah. In the town 32:12 – center and between me and my wife, I’ve 32:13 – got seven properties and I’m doing well. 32:15 – And I had done what everyone else is 32:18 – trying to do. My passion was making 32:19 – money. I had enough money. Get out of 32:21 – Luton like everyone else does. Get out, 32:23 – run. Yeah. 32:24 – >> Get into a village, get into a nice 32:26 – area, set up my family. I had my first 32:28 – child and then uh two first child 2008. 32:32 – And then the soldiers homecoming parade 32:33 – in Luton. 32:35 – Soldiers, it’s a Tuesday morning. 32:36 – soldiers are given the freedom of the 32:37 – city and again to make it personal for 32:41 – personal because it is personal as 32:42 – Lutonians it’s personal because it’s our 32:44 – town every time you hear our town’s name 32:46 – is to do with terrorism we’re fed up of 32:47 – that 32:48 – >> every time our town is every football 32:50 – away fan sing about our town being full 32:52 – of terrorists everything’s about 32:53 – terrorism and then they they attacked 32:55 – our soldiers and in that in that 32:57 – regiment which was the Royal Anglians 33:00 – Scott Muntridge was 26 and he died he’s 33:01 – from our estate Michael Swain was 19 and 33:04 – lost his legs Yeah. And when they’ve 33:07 – done that, they’re then attacked by the 33:08 – same group, Al-Mrain, that we’ve already 33:11 – been confronting for years. Yeah. 33:13 – They’re attacked by them. So 2009 comes 33:16 – and when they’re attacked, just to 33:18 – understand, I remember and bearing in 33:21 – mind at this point, I know who this 33:22 – group are. These are jihadists. 33:24 – >> These are the Nazis of the millennium. 33:26 – That’s who they are. And they’re free to 33:28 – do what they want. No one stopping them. 33:30 – Councils aren’t stopping them. Police 33:31 – aren’t stopping them. In fact, they’re 33:32 – letting them. And that day I stood in 33:34 – the town. It’s Tuesday morning. Stood 33:36 – down my cousin. Got down the town hall 33:38 – to show some respect for the armed 33:39 – forces and saw police everywhere. Too 33:41 – many police. What’s going on? Saw 30 33:43 – nicabs altogether. Then started spotting 33:46 – the main Muslim radical lads safe Islam 33:49 – Roger Ibrahim. Started looking and think 33:51 – right what’s going on? And then the 33:53 – police took them through the town hall. 33:55 – They opened up the doors of the town 33:56 – hall and they took a group of 20 of them 33:59 – and walked them through the town hall. 34:00 – So I’m watching it thinking what’s going 34:02 – on. They walked them through the town 34:04 – hall. So as the soldiers marched down 34:05 – here, which is the back of the town 34:07 – hall, they put the the Muslim protesters 34:10 – this far from the soldiers and let them 34:12 – attack them. They spat in one of the 34:15 – lads mum’s faces, soldiers mom’s faces. 34:17 – They shouted b butchers, baby killers. 34:19 – They shouted all this stuff and done 34:21 – this protest. And there was probably 20 34:22 – of them there. 60 of them down here by 34:25 – the town by Don Miller’s bakery cuz that 34:27 – was their little meeting which was where 34:28 – they always are. 60 of them there, but 34:30 – the police actually stopped because some 34:32 – of our lads got arrested on that day. 34:34 – The police actually stopped 330 of them 34:36 – coming into Luton off the motorway. So 34:38 – imagine there was 500 of them. Imagine 34:40 – the damage they would have done that 34:41 – day. But this story went worldwide about 34:43 – Luton and it was that day and bearing in 34:46 – mind I’m getting on my life by this 34:47 – point. I’m doing all right. And I 34:48 – remember speaking to my cousin and 34:50 – speaking to some lads after that and 34:51 – said we can’t let them do this. like 34:55 – they can’t get away with this because if 34:57 – they do what’s next and we’ve seen the 34:59 – progression that same group that 35:01 – attacked the soldiers is the same group 35:03 – that burnt poppies on armatist day 35:05 – >> is the same group that Michael Adabal 35:07 – was part of that went from attacking the 35:09 – soldiers 35:09 – >> one of the Lee rugby killers attacking 35:11 – soldiers on the street burning poppies 35:14 – beheading soldiers we I made a video 35:16 – about Lever’s killer two years before he 35:18 – got before he done that we showed him in 35:20 – a video here he is in Harrow we we were 35:23 – we and then So in 2009 this happens. We 35:27 – know who they are. And we said no like 35:29 – enough’s enough on this issue. Enough is 35:31 – enough. And do you know what we’ve done? 35:33 – And and and that’s why I kept asking 35:34 – people what would you do? This is your 35:36 – town. Anyone watching this, you live in 35:38 – this town. You’ve seen all these 35:40 – problems. There’s a total two-tier 35:42 – poling. Now two-tier policing is part of 35:44 – national vocabulary. Yeah. But it 35:46 – wasn’t. But it was for us. We’ve always 35:48 – seen it. So you know what I’ve done? I I 35:51 – organized a protest. But before we done 35:53 – any protests, I set up a petition. Got 35:55 – three and a half thousand signatures. 35:56 – And I approached the council and the 35:58 – petition said asbow antisocial behavior 36:01 – orders, which is what they use. So in 36:02 – our in our estates, if two kids are 36:05 – continually causing trouble together, 36:07 – they’ll give them an asbow from being 36:08 – together. And then they’ll give them a 36:10 – perimeter around the shop so they can’t 36:11 – hang around so that so that normal 36:13 – people can go to shop without loads of 36:14 – little hoodies causing mayhem. Yeah. So 36:16 – what we ask for is implement these 36:18 – orders against this group so that when 36:21 – my mom or my auntie or any of our 36:23 – families go down to town center they’re 36:25 – not being accosted recruited vulnerable 36:28 – men aren’t being recruited because the 36:29 – Stockholm bomber was an innocent Iraqi 36:31 – Muslim who come to Newton University 36:33 – from Sweden and on freshers week which 36:35 – is when these groups are active in the 36:36 – universities he was recruited and he was 36:39 – on his own and then he end up going and 36:41 – blowing himself up. This is a process of 36:43 – grooming of radicalization. So we we 36:45 – done this petition said look stop him 36:47 – ban them the council won’t even meet 36:50 – with us the council just ignored it and 36:52 – when they ignored it then I said right 36:54 – okay 36:55 – >> why do you think they ignored it Tommy 36:56 – >> they’re so scared do you know they’ve 36:57 – never said no at this point I’m looking 36:59 – at them take them through a town hall 37:00 – and think you’ve never told them no like 37:03 – if I say now we’re going to protest 37:05 – outside East London mosque what are the 37:07 – police going to say no you can’t yeah 37:09 – you can’t come outside the mosque on a 37:11 – Friday afternoon because it’s going to 37:12 – cause mayhem well you can’t stand in 37:14 – front of armed forces. If you want to 37:16 – protest those soldiers who were 37:17 – peacemakers, they weren’t at war with 37:19 – the Roy Angran regiment. They were 37:20 – training their armies. Yeah. You want to 37:22 – pro you want to protest that group, go 37:25 – to the government. Yeah. Protest the 37:27 – council. Whatever you want to do, 37:28 – spitting in their faces on their on 37:30 – their on their return home tour of duty. 37:32 – So, we were angry and really angry. So I 37:36 – I organized and I went I made leaflets 37:38 – and again and I said to my cousin and 37:41 – it’s only because there was two of us 37:43 – because I never we shook hands because 37:45 – you can’t go into this one foot. We knew 37:47 – that. Yeah. 37:48 – >> We can’t do this half eyed. We’re either 37:50 – in it or we’re not and next is a 37:53 – soldier’s funeral. I knew that. They’ve 37:55 – done this today if they’re allowed to 37:57 – carry on. And then there was big 37:59 – tensions in Luton at that time. Big 38:00 – tensions. Like there was problems going 38:02 – off against them and against us. And it 38:05 – was like there was so much trouble going 38:07 – on but and then and then I remember 38:10 – because there was a I think there was uh 38:14 – the the Salafice mosque in the town 38:16 – which is the old synagogue. Yeah. Which 38:19 – is where the Islam which is where the 38:22 – Stockholm Mama went. So as I drive when 38:24 – I was younger my Muslim mates would say 38:27 – that’s the problem. And as we’re driving 38:29 – the car that one there that one there I 38:31 – said what? He said that’s the terrorist 38:33 – mosque. So we knew locally that’s the 38:35 – terrorist mosque. But when all this blew 38:37 – up the main leader of the terrorist 38:38 – mosque, Kadir Bas was his name, become a 38:42 – chair of the Luton in harmony program. 38:45 – So they set up a program to try and 38:46 – counter our protests, called it looting 38:48 – in harmony and brought the main 38:49 – terrorists and sat around the table as 38:51 – one of the men calling for harmony. We 38:53 – organized I organized my first protest 38:56 – um over this issue and we set up a group 38:59 – called the United people of Luton and we 39:02 – turned up to protest that day and it was 39:04 – bank holiday. There’s two bank holidays 39:05 – in May. So we done the first bank 39:06 – holiday on the Sunday. Now we were angry 39:09 – but it was a community. It wasn’t just 39:12 – football lads cuz this was an issue that 39:13 – everyone was upset about. Yeah. So it 39:15 – was aunt my aunties were there, families 39:17 – were there, kids were kids were there. 39:20 – And I paid a cameraman £450 to come and 39:23 – film everything. And the reason I’ve 39:25 – done this is cuz I understand two-tier 39:26 – poling. I’ve seen my whole life. So I 39:28 – know what’s coming. Yeah. The minute we 39:30 – try and come out. So we’ve turned up. 39:32 – Camera man turned up with us. They stop 39:34 – us in the street, put their hands in our 39:35 – pockets, make us take our shoes off, 39:37 – search us, watch your name. And as 39:40 – they’re doing this, I said, “You didn’t 39:41 – do this to them.” All right. on that 39:43 – soldiers hung home parade. You did not 39:45 – do this to them. I know you didn’t. So, 39:47 – I watched it. Why didn’t you put your 39:48 – cameras in their faces? Why didn’t you 39:50 – ask them their names? You just walked 39:51 – them through. Yeah. So, why are you 39:53 – doing this to us now? We’re coming out 39:54 – as community and we’re trying to get to 39:56 – the war memorial which is at the other 39:58 – end of the town. And the police kettled 40:00 – us for 3 hours. They locked us in at the 40:01 – front, locked us in at the back. They 40:03 – come through on a horse, knocked out my 40:04 – mate’s teeth. The police did. Little 40:07 – black lad called Isaac. Took his teeth 40:09 – out. So, they kettled. My auntie had to 40:11 – urinate in the street. I remember 40:12 – standing there as women were urinating 40:14 – in the street thinking, “Well, Muslim 40:15 – women women wouldn’t have to urinate in 40:17 – the street. You would never dare lock 40:19 – Muslims in a group like this.” Yeah. And 40:22 – I went back again to previous protests 40:24 – cuz I’ve been following this group. They 40:26 – held an anti-Gaza, Antigaza protest. 40:28 – Yeah. Which is just a pro Hamas protest. 40:30 – And in this protest, there’s about 40:33 – thousands thousands coming out of the 40:35 – Muslim community. And it’s led by this 40:37 – group. They’re leading it. Safe for 40:39 – Islam, all the terrorists, they’re at 40:40 – the front of it. Yeah. They’ve organized 40:42 – it and they’re going, “Kaoba, Kauba, 40:44 – Kuba.” And I remember thinking, “Wonder 40:46 – what that is.” So I started looking at 40:47 – it. And Kuba is where Muhammad beheaded 40:50 – 600 Jews. The leader of the Jewish 40:52 – trib’s wife married her that night. So I 40:54 – started I I’d gone through a process of 40:56 – understanding a lot of this stuff when 40:58 – most people weren’t understanding it. 41:01 – >> So I was becoming knowledgeable on it, 41:02 – thinking, “Okay, I know who they are. I 41:03 – know what that is. I know what’s going 41:05 – on.” So we held our protest and the 41:07 – police just locked us in. And they 41:08 – locked us in, didn’t let us get to the 41:10 – war moral. So I think we let them get to 41:12 – the warm world and we now you won’t let 41:14 – us. So first of all we’re angry with 41:16 – them the Muslim community and the 41:18 – extremists within it and after this this 41:20 – become more about civil rights. It 41:22 – become more about no you’re not doing 41:23 – this to us. Yeah. So the next and and 41:26 – then after that first protest they come 41:28 – to to my house the police did they 41:30 – raided 14 properties. Yeah. And what 41:32 – they did is cleverly which is what 41:33 – they’re still doing now. It’s their 41:35 – tactic is to put fear into the community 41:37 – to from speaking out. It’s what Karma 41:39 – has just done by weaponizing the 41:40 – judiciary after the riots by Lucy 41:42 – Connley, Peter Lynch, me. They try and 41:44 – put fear to set a Zar pool by people to 41:47 – make sure everyone else shuts up. So 41:49 – when they come in our houses, they went 41:50 – to my mom’s and anyone who got nicked. I 41:52 – wasn’t at home so I didn’t get nicked. 41:54 – Anyone who got nicked got given bail 41:55 – conditions not to enter Luton Town 41:57 – Center 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for 41:59 – 3 months. So then we sat down after and 42:02 – said, “Well, that’s what we wanted for 42:04 – them.” So rather than give it to the 42:07 – terrorists, they’ve given it to us. 42:08 – We’re and everyone was arrested on 42:10 – public order offenses. Yeah. No one got 42:11 – prosecuted. So these were just and and 42:14 – this become a tactic of the state. This 42:16 – was [  ] arrest to then to enforce
42:19 – bail conditions to limit and prohibit
42:21 – your freedoms from protesting and
42:23 – standing up. So then comes the next
42:25 – protest 3 weeks later and this is what
42:27 – changed it for us because I turned up
42:29 – that morning. I was wanted as were all
42:31 – the other lads who were banned and I
42:33 – turned up with 100 baclavas and we met
42:35 – at a at a pub and it was and it was
42:37 – football lads and we met up. I gave
42:39 – everyone balaclavas. We all had t-shirts
42:41 – that said it was a Luton logo with no
42:43 – surrender to Alqaaida. We met up and
42:46 – again I bought the cameraman and um I
42:49 – bought the cameraman. I rang the police
42:51 – anominously and said, “Stay out of the
42:53 – way today. If you” and I, I’m just
42:56 – giving you a warning because if you
42:58 – could have lit a match and threw it in
42:59 – the air, I think Luton would have just
43:00 – gone. It was ready. Yeah.
43:03 – >> I’ve never seen anything like it. And
43:04 – I’ve grown up in the town my whole life.
43:06 – And I remember at the time at the time
43:07 – in the in after the first demonstration,
43:09 – I had Pakistani lads ringing me up
43:11 – saying, “Yaks like these are terrorists,
43:13 – bro. Like you’re not messing with the
43:14 – street gangs. Like you’re upsetting
43:16 – everyone here.”
43:17 – >> I remember saying, “Yeah, there’s 500 of
43:18 – us.” Because at the time there was 500
43:20 – of us. I said there’s 500 loot lads and
43:23 – everyone’s had enough of it. We’ve had
43:24 – enough of the terrorism. We’ve had
43:26 – enough of the had enough of the heroin.
43:28 – We’ve had enough. So the second
43:29 – demonstration comes balaclavas are given
43:31 – out. We all get then go into the town
43:33 – center. Police attempt to stop it. And I
43:36 – warned them at the time. I said don’t
43:37 – try and stop it cuz the town’s going to
43:38 – burn. I’m telling you now. Let just let
43:41 – people get to the war memorial. Let us
43:42 – have our day at the war memorial. But
43:44 – they tried to stop it. And then there
43:45 – was running battles through the town and
43:47 – then the images that then took this to
43:49 – international uh recognition was men
43:52 – wearing bacavvers with England flags on
43:55 – our town hall steps which was then seen
43:57 – which I understand why it was seen. I
44:00 – then took the video of Luton’s lads that
44:02 – day and I went on messaging boards
44:04 – around the country which is football
44:06 – chat forums at the time. This was before
44:08 – the rise of social media really but
44:10 – every football club has a chat forum. So
44:12 – Mills football lads, Tottenham’s
44:14 – football lads, Chelsea football lads,
44:16 – they all have their own forums where
44:17 – they talk and then put the video up and
44:19 – said Luton are making a stand basically
44:21 – against this. Yeah. And that we and
44:25 – people talked about the tactics at the
44:26 – EDL. This was the United people of
44:28 – Luton. And when on that first
44:30 – demonstration when we all met up when
44:32 – they kettled us with the second one, I
44:34 – remember we sat in it was called
44:35 – Brookies in the town center and I walked
44:36 – in and some big white skinned lad come
44:38 – in. He said and he sat down. He goes,
44:40 – “Are you the organizer?” I said, “Yeah,
44:41 – this is all Luton’s lads.” He goes,
44:43 – “Well, we’ve heard about what’s going
44:44 – on. There’s 30 national fund getting off
44:46 – the train station.” I said, “Great.” I
44:48 – said, “Cuz we’re going to smash their
44:49 – heads in, lads.”
44:50 – >> He’s like, “What?” I said, “Look around
44:52 – this pub.” Yeah. When the National Front
44:54 – come into this town, they’re going to
44:55 – get battered. They’re going to get run
44:56 – out. Yeah. And that and they did get
44:58 – chased out. They
44:58 – >> Tell people about the National Front
45:00 – because this is one of the big issues
45:01 – with you, Tommy, isn’t it? for people
45:03 – who are not educated about this issue is
45:06 – um a lot of people call you far right
45:09 – >> and in doing that now we can talk about
45:13 – you know the different aspects of your
45:14 – behavior some of the street violence and
45:16 – all that which is an issue and we’ll
45:17 – talk about it but when they mean far
45:20 – when they say far right what they really
45:22 – mean what they really mean I think is
45:24 – that you’re racist you hate black people
45:26 – you hate brown people you hate Jews etc
45:29 – and the national front are people who
45:31 – actually are all those National Front
45:32 – are all those things. They’re Nazis.
45:34 – They hate everyone. And there’s never
45:36 – been the presence of those sorts of
45:37 – people within the town of Luton.
45:38 – >> So, so people say that about you, but
45:41 – what you’re saying is you have always
45:44 – actually fought with and against those
45:47 – people
45:47 – >> the whole time. And in fact,
45:49 – >> why why don’t you like the National
45:50 – Front?
45:51 – >> They’re the same as the radical
45:52 – jihadists. It’s exactly the same. In
45:54 – fact, they’re now coming together.
45:55 – They’re now joining together.
45:56 – >> Yeah.
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46:58 – >> In fact, they’re now coming together,
46:59 – aren’t they? They’re now joining
47:00 – together. They’re now joining together.
47:02 – It’s mad. You now see Nick Griffin
47:04 – sitting down with radical Dilly Hussein.
47:06 – They both want supremacy. He wants white
47:08 – supremacy. He wants Islamic supremacy.
47:10 – And here they are together coming. They
47:11 – basically all coming together just cuz
47:12 – they hate Jews and everything’s a Jew’s
47:14 – fault. Yeah, that’s that’s what’s
47:15 – brought them together now. But but at
47:17 – this time that and our first if you dig
47:20 – up the first Luton United People of
47:22 – Luton, we had NF go to hell on our
47:26 – banners cuz we thought, you know, when
47:28 – you try and do something like this, we
47:29 – knew it would attract certain certain
47:31 – types. So we made it very clear when we
47:33 – had our So this is Luton. We’ve had
47:35 – these two issues in Luton. All hell’s
47:37 – going off. We then watch our and and if
47:39 – you look at the footage, go on Luton
47:41 – protest was a YouTube channel and it’s
47:43 – called the United People of Luton.
47:45 – You’ll see the first ever protest and
47:46 – you’ll see hundreds of us and we’re
47:48 – standing outside the town hall cheering
47:49 – we are Luton Town. Yeah. Everyone’s
47:51 – trying and then I see the leader of the
47:53 – council saying all these outsiders have
47:55 – come into our town. It’s like we’re not
47:57 – outsiders. It’s our town. It’s our town
47:59 – and they’re taking a pity in the town.
48:01 – So this is all going on.
48:02 – >> Tommy, one sec. Sorry. I You’ve got lots
48:05 – to say. We’re going to which is great
48:07 – and we want you’ve got loads of time as
48:09 – we discuss so we’re just going to jump
48:11 – in every now and again because there’s
48:12 – little bits that we want to
48:13 – >> um I I do remember seeing somewhere I I
48:16 – haven’t fact checked this so correct me
48:18 – but something about you joining the BNP
48:20 – or something what is the truth of that
48:22 – >> so 2004 I joined the British National
48:24 – Party so 2004 which
48:25 – >> because they are basically the
48:26 – continuation of the national front Nick
48:28 – Griffin was the leader
48:29 – >> Nick Griffin was they’re the political
48:31 – wing of the national so 2004 was when I
48:34 – held the first protest ban lut in
48:35 – Taliban
48:35 – >> right
48:36 – >> now at that time that’s when I started
48:37 – going down the rabbit hole looking
48:38 – online
48:39 – >> for who’s talking about this
48:40 – >> and to be honest the only people talking
48:42 – about it was a group called the BMP
48:43 – >> right
48:43 – >> the BMP then were talking about it and
48:45 – they set and then we I think I messaged
48:48 – and they set up a meeting at a pub
48:50 – called the King Harry pub and this is
48:51 – documented by search light search light
48:53 – was a far-left magaz magazine now search
48:56 – documented as when the MIGs fell out
48:58 – with the BMP the MIGs is Luton’s
49:00 – football hulman element it’s called the
49:01 – men in gear yeah
49:02 – >> so we’ve turned up to this meeting where
49:04 – this is the group that’s talking about
49:06 – these issues. Even back in 2004, they
49:08 – were talking about the grooming, you
49:09 – know, the rapes in Bradford and things
49:11 – like that.
49:11 – >> So, they turn up to the meeting and we
49:13 – all turn up and they say, “Oh, he can’t
49:15 – come in. He can’t come in. He can’t come
49:16 – in.” It’s like, “What?”
49:18 – Non-whites can’t join.
49:20 – >> So, you joking? So, at that point, you
49:23 – can’t have a meeting in the pub. In
49:25 – fact, you can’t operate in any pubs. You
49:26 – can’t operate in any pubs in Luton.
49:28 – Yeah. Cuz that’s what Luton is. our
49:30 – problem which was my and you know when
49:32 – you went on the BMP website at that time
49:34 – >> it had 10 points
49:36 – >> uh TVs for old age pensioners every
49:38 – point every point you’d go I agree with
49:41 – that I agree with that I agree with that
49:42 – now at this point bearing in mind before
49:44 – this I just I didn’t know the difference
49:46 – between leftwing rightwing and I didn’t
49:48 – care
49:48 – >> because I was just I was a working-ass
49:50 – kid on a building site earning money
49:53 – didn’t give a [  ] about politics 49:54 – understood Islam what was going on but 49:57 – never ventured into politics I didn’t 49:58 – understand there was leftwing newspapers 49:59 – I was writing newspapers till I start 50:01 – the EDL 50:01 – >> and then I got a shock of my life. 50:03 – Absolute shock of my life. Yeah. And and 50:05 – I went through this learning curve 50:06 – >> and this is kind of before the internet 50:07 – really is what the internet is now. So 50:09 – you can’t just like AI search stuff. 50:12 – >> No, there was nothing. The way to get 50:14 – your message across was get on the 50:15 – street. 50:15 – >> So you turn up to this meeting of the 50:17 – BNP, you realize they’re racist, but you 50:19 – still joined. 50:20 – >> No, I was I joined at that point for as 50:22 – soon as come online. Now there was a 50:23 – leaked list. There’s a leaked BMP 50:24 – membership list. 50:25 – >> Oh, you joined online and then you 50:26 – realized Okay. But then when I realized 50:28 – so the league list shows the membership 50:30 – say from 2002 to 2008. 50:32 – >> I joined in 2004 for one year. So I 50:34 – joined up with a year membership. I 50:36 – don’t rejoin. You can see the league 50:37 – list. There’s no rejoining. Yeah. So at 50:40 – that point it’s like right you lot off. 50:42 – We’ll do it our way. Yeah. Which is as 50:43 – as lads in Luton. We’ll do it our way. 50:46 – >> We organize our protest then. We set up 50:48 – set up the first protest. Had the had 50:49 – the two protests. Then after they 50:52 – detected our soldiers and this still for 50:54 – me is still insane. Yeah. They attacked 50:57 – our soldiers and then I look online and 50:59 – I’m following this group. They’re 51:00 – holding an Islamic road show. So we’re 51:02 – looking at them. They were in Wood Wood 51:04 – Green. So they had a street stall in 51:06 – Wood Green and we went in the back of a 51:07 – lorry about 40 of us and we pulled up 51:10 – down the end of the road, jumped out, 51:11 – had a little there was running, police 51:13 – were there, but we shut down their stall 51:15 – again. So our tactics that time was 51:17 – let’s follow these terrorists. Let’s see 51:19 – instead of going to football against 51:20 – Chelsea on Saturday, let’s go find 51:22 – these. That’s basically just the truth 51:24 – of what we were doing. Yeah, let’s shut 51:26 – this lot down. Let’s let’s confront 51:28 – them. And remember, the police were let 51:31 – them letting them act the way they 51:32 – wanted. Now we now they become a 51:34 – prescribed terrorist organization by 51:36 – 2010 after one year of the English 51:38 – defense league chasing around the 51:39 – country. Then the government stepped in 51:40 – home sector in said we’ve got to ban 51:42 – them. Well, you know, you should abandon 51:44 – them 20 years ago. Yeah, you abandoned 51:45 – them because there was street problems. 51:47 – They only listened to that. So at the 51:49 – time I understand. So we we went we 51:51 – went. Do 51:51 – >> you know something? I interrupt you 51:52 – there because what you just said I think 51:56 – 10 years ago people would have been like 51:59 – the police only react when there’s 52:01 – street problems. 52:03 – >> But I can’t argue with that now. 52:05 – >> When I look around at what’s happening 52:06 – now, I can’t argue with it because they 52:08 – cover up and ignore stuff until people 52:12 – are really angry and then they act on 52:14 – it. I mean that’s just people can say 52:15 – that’s whatever. That’s just a fact. If 52:18 – you look at our country now, if you look 52:20 – at the protest outside mic and hotels 52:22 – and all of this stuff, they have been 52:23 – ignoring all this until people actually 52:26 – started getting angry. That’s just a 52:27 – fact, right? 52:28 – >> It’s a fact. And I’d say since 2001 when 52:30 – the Muslim community rioted in Bradford 52:32 – and the riots spread to Olden and the 52:34 – riots spread to um Stoke and at that 52:37 – time those riots if you look at the cost 52:38 – of the rights this was after I think um 52:41 – an old an old old age British pensioner 52:44 – was beaten by a gang of Pakistanis which 52:46 – provoked 200 again football lads at the 52:49 – time I think from Holden. Yeah. I think 52:51 – they marched into an area a Muslim area 52:53 – which then triggered race riots where 52:55 – entire places burned through Bradford. 52:57 – They come out in Bradford and burn 52:58 – everywhere. Since that point, if you 53:00 – look at it, it looks like the government 53:02 – just went, “Okay, Muslims, do what you 53:04 – want.” Yeah. And and the Muslim leaders, 53:07 – which they always do, and I’ve seen 53:09 – example after example of this, which we 53:10 – get on to, they just threaten violence. 53:12 – They just say, “We won’t be able to 53:13 – control our youth.” Yeah. You’ve got to 53:15 – stop these people. You’ve got to arrest 53:17 – him. Stop him. Shut down this. And then 53:20 – the government just go and we’ll just 53:22 – pander to them. So, you’ve seen and then 53:24 – now the country seen it. You saw on the 53:26 – Hamas riots. You saw them calling for 53:27 – jihad on the streets. Literally calling 53:30 – for jihad and then the police are 53:31 – putting out a statement saying jihad has 53:33 – lots of different meanings. 53:34 – >> Well, not when it’s coming from his, but 53:35 – to hear it doesn’t. 53:36 – >> Cuz that man saying it is is a is part 53:38 – of a prescribed terrorist organization 53:40 – in most countries, but not this pathetic 53:42 – country. 53:42 – >> It is now. It is. 53:44 – >> It wasn’t at the time. 53:45 – >> Again, it is now. Why now? Why wasn’t it 53:47 – for the last 20 years? His butt to here. 53:49 – Every Islamic society in every 53:51 – university around this country was his 53:53 – butt to here. So kids kids kids are 53:55 – going to university and a terrorist 53:56 – group because they’re now a terrorist 53:58 – group but they’ve always been a 53:59 – terrorist group just our weak pathetic 54:00 – government didn’t prescribe them because 54:02 – they didn’t want to upset people. It’s 54:03 – like mad. You don’t upset them until 54:04 – they’re calling for jihad until they’re 54:06 – openly saying the madness that we know 54:08 – they’ve been promoting anyway. Yeah. 54:10 – They’ve made universities total no-go 54:12 – zones for certain communities and whilst 54:13 – jihad runs. So at that time this is 54:17 – going on. We look at the Islamic group. 54:19 – We then we then I see a young boy called 54:22 – Shawn. He was 11 years old. He’s in 54:23 – Birmingham and they get him up on stage 54:26 – about 200 of them. I used this video in 54:28 – my Oxford Union presentation just to 54:29 – show people look at what happened 54:31 – because there’s a story to what happened 54:32 – before the English Defense League was 54:34 – born. You have to understand the 15 54:35 – years in Lon. Then you have to 54:36 – understand what went on with the UPL. 54:38 – Then you have to understand that the 54:39 – government, the local community uh 54:40 – council ignored us, suppressed us. Then 54:42 – you have to understand the police 54:43 – attacked us, silenced us, [  ]
54:45 – charges to control us. Then comes the
54:49 – English fence league. And it only come
54:51 – because Sha was 11 years old and they
54:53 – got him up on stage and they had a
54:55 – banner saying Jesus was a Muslim in the
54:57 – city center. Imagine we had a banner
54:59 – saying Muhammad was a was a Christian or
55:01 – something that would upset you just
55:03 – couldn’t do it anyway. They’d kill you
55:04 – but the police would stop you and all.
55:06 – But they had Jesus was a Muslim.
55:07 – Hundreds of them screaming Alaw Akbar
55:09 – whilst they converted an 11-year-old boy
55:10 – who was out with his mate shopping in
55:11 – Tanzan. And I remember watching it going
55:13 – right they can’t do that. Right. they
55:16 – cannot be doing this in city centers to
55:19 – kids. So we then went as a group of
55:21 – Luton lads. We said right called
55:23 – ourselves the English Defense League. I
55:24 – made t-shirts. We all wore them and we
55:27 – went to Birmingham for our first ever
55:29 – and it was if you watch up and this is
55:31 – where I learned a lot about the media.
55:33 – We went to Birmingham as a group of 50
55:34 – and we got run and smashed everywhere.
55:36 – Yeah. Lads were getting beaten
55:38 – unconscious on the floor. There was
55:39 – newspaper clippings of men with blood,
55:41 – English men with blood all over them and
55:43 – there must have been a mob of a thousand
55:45 – Muslims and the police put us in a pub.
55:47 – Yeah. And we were in this pub for 3
55:48 – hours and they couldn’t clear the
55:50 – streets. So then the police end up
55:51 – getting us buses. They go and take buses
55:53 – to try and get us out of there. They
55:54 – bring in buses. All the bus windows go
55:56 – through and as we get out on these
55:58 – buses, everyone’s getting smashed to
55:59 – hell. We’re looking down the side
56:01 – streets and and it’s bricks littered
56:03 – everywhere. So I think they’ve been
56:04 – rioting for hours. Yeah, they’ve been
56:06 – rioting for hours. But that’s and our
56:08 – banners read Nigerian Christians, we
56:11 – stand with you as victims of jihad
56:12 – because again I’m down the rabbit hole
56:14 – at this point and I’m organizing it and
56:16 – I saw that five Christian churches were
56:17 – blown up on Christmas day and it didn’t
56:19 – even make our news and I’m thinking
56:21 – Christians are being massacred not
56:23 – Christian Nigerians are being butchered
56:25 – and nothing seems to be why is no one
56:27 – speaking about this? Where’s the
56:27 – Christian leadership in this country? So
56:29 – and I’m going down all these rabbit
56:30 – holes thinking what’s going on. So we’ll
56:32 – go to permanent and Obana said Muslim no
56:34 – problem because I hadn’t gone down the
56:35 – rabbit hole that much on the reality of
56:37 – Islam. I’ve just been looking at groups
56:40 – Muslim no problem extremist Muslim big
56:42 – problem. But what happens is Sam Makub
56:44 – which we didn’t know Samub went in a
56:47 – mosque and she told the crowds of
56:49 – Muslims that the BMP the national front
56:51 – and the racist were here to attack him
56:53 – which was us 50 lads. Yeah. So we they
56:56 – come out and they rioted but no one
56:58 – spoke. I remember watching it thinking,
56:59 – well, we we’ve come here about Sha
57:01 – because we had banners. What about Sha’s
57:02 – rights? We’ve come here about this
57:04 – Christian kid who’s been converted and
57:05 – no one’s even spoke about it. So, no
57:07 – politicians spoke back, police didn’t
57:08 – speak bad, no mention it. We were called
57:09 – racist. We were called farr right and we
57:11 – were bad. That’s basically it. So, I
57:13 – watched this and then after this I saw
57:15 – this is how the EDL developed from 50
57:17 – men. These images went all over the
57:19 – country. Yeah. And people were talking
57:21 – about bloody Luton went to Birmingham
57:22 – today and got bad. Yeah. And when I say
57:24 – people, I guess football elements in
57:27 – clubs were talking about it. Then
57:29 – there’s a Christian graveyard, a church
57:31 – has been bought in long sight in
57:33 – Manchester and there’s they’re just
57:35 – bulldozing over their headstones. I
57:36 – remember them watching that going,
57:37 – “Well, you ain’t doing that either.”
57:38 – Yeah, that’s insane. So we then said,
57:41 – “Right, we’re coming from Birmingham.
57:43 – We’re now the English Defense League are
57:45 – coming to Manchester.” And that was a
57:47 – real defi changing moment cuz when we
57:49 – turned up in Manchester as a group of
57:50 – 50, 2,000 young men were there. 2,000
57:53 – young men were there like that like
57:55 – because they’d watch the videos of the
57:56 – Muslims smashing everyone and men who
57:58 – were not going to be smashed. That’s how
58:00 – it started who were going to defend
58:02 – other English men at that time which is
58:04 – so people talk about well the English
58:05 – defense league was a bit of an
58:06 – explosion. I said after what happened to
58:08 – us in Birmingham it was never going to
58:10 – be female school teachers and nurses
58:12 – that were coming out on the street.
58:13 – Yeah. and and although and I I I went
58:16 – for four years leading this group and
58:18 – I’m think we’re very lucky and I decided
58:20 – to leave myself because I felt it wasn’t
58:23 – it was counterproductive to continue
58:25 – marching into cities. I understood then
58:27 – maybe we weren’t having the right effect
58:29 – cuz maybe we were giving the radicals
58:32 – and the extremists the ammunition for
58:35 – some other Muslims to join them to say
58:37 – look at this lot. Yeah. But we went
58:38 – around the country and remember at this
58:40 – time when I left Luton and I started
58:42 – meeting families and people and
58:44 – understanding Jesus Christ in every town
58:45 – city our daughters are being raped in
58:47 – what I’ve seen in Luton. I’m then
58:49 – sitting with families and again I tell
58:51 – this story. We had our Blackburn
58:53 – demonstration. We went from Manchester
58:54 – to Stoke to Blackburn. Blackburn was
58:57 – chaos but there was thousands. And I
58:59 – went the night before and sat with a
59:00 – family whose 12-year-old daughter had
59:01 – been missing for three days. And there
59:03 – are 16-year-old brothers there and
59:04 – they’re all they’re crying. The family
59:06 – are crying and then when we went to the
59:08 – demonstration, there’s trouble flaring
59:10 – with the police and I remember going
59:11 – down the front of that demonstration to
59:12 – try and calm the trouble. And who’s at
59:14 – the front fighting the police? Her
59:16 – 16-year-old brother. I’m who am I even
59:18 – to tell him? I’ve just sat with that
59:19 – family last night. The police ain’t
59:21 – doing nothing. His daughter, his
59:22 – sister’s missing for days. So that level
59:25 – of anger and the reason people talk
59:27 – about the phenomenon of the English
59:28 – Defense League at the time. Yeah. cuz we
59:30 – went from here one day to within 6
59:33 – months we had divisions in every town
59:34 – and city and we’re the largest street
59:36 – protest movement in the Europe scene and
59:38 – we didn’t plan it. We didn’t have
59:40 – control of it. The police had no idea or
59:42 – intelligence on it. So it just went home
59:45 – across the whole country. And why did it
59:47 – go home across the whole country?
59:48 – Because everyone if you just look at
59:49 – roam 1400 victims well those 1400
59:52 – victims have probably got four family
59:53 – members each. That’s 10,000 people just
59:55 – in roam who have been directly evicted
59:56 – by the of gangs in that town. So when we
59:59 – when when all these people have been
60:00 – silenced and scared to talk about it,
60:02 – people used to whisper about Islam, all
60:04 – of a sudden you’ve got 3,000 4,000 men
60:06 – walking through the streets singing we
60:07 – are infidels and we’ve had enough of
60:09 – this. Yeah. And if and I’ve got and I go
60:12 – back and again when we say what was the
60:14 – I can look at mistakes we made look at
60:16 – errors I made my personal behavior at
60:19 – times. I can look at all that and you
60:20 – learn a lot from it. But I just look at
60:22 – the graph and if you do a graph and you
60:25 – set 2009 which is the formation of the
60:27 – English Defense League and you have a
60:29 – line like this for the Muslims who are
60:31 – arrested for of children in gangs and
60:33 – the line goes like this. The English
60:35 – Defense League forms and again this is
60:37 – the only time they act when there’s a
60:39 – resistance. Yeah. Unfortunately
60:41 – >> it just goes through the roof.
60:42 – >> Yeah.
60:43 – >> They realized behind in corridors of
60:45 – power up and down this country in
60:46 – government they all of a sudden realized
60:48 – we got to do something. Yeah. And in
60:50 – fact, Andrew Norfolk, I don’t want to
60:52 – speak dead ill with a dead man because I
60:54 – know he’s died recently, but this is his
60:57 – words. He knew his words in an
61:00 – interview. He knew the gangs were
61:01 – operating. He knew the victims were
61:03 – young white girls and he was too scared
61:04 – to report on it. Along comes the English
61:07 – Defense League. And what he says is, “We
61:09 – needed to take it back from the far
61:11 – right.” Yeah. Far right. What you mean
61:13 – by far right is families, fathers, and
61:16 – English men who ain’t who ain’t backing
61:17 – down on this issue. Yeah. And and we
61:19 – went through our daughters are not our
61:21 – in the end our banner said from 2009 of
61:23 – our daughters are not halali. Yeah.
61:25 – Because that’s how they’re being treated
61:27 – literally and no one’s doing anything
61:29 – about it. So then arrest start going
61:31 – through the roof. The government start
61:33 – listening. And when I say they’re
61:34 – listening, they were listening. I had
61:37 – when we set up the English Defense
61:38 – League, we’re in Luton and they called
61:39 – me for a meeting, the council did. And I
61:41 – go to the meeting and they’ve got about
61:43 – 10 of them and they had a they had
61:44 – cameras set up like this and they had a
61:46 – labor baroness. She was baroness from
61:48 – the Labour government, a black lady. And
61:50 – they sat me down and said, “Tell us
61:53 – what’s wrong.” So I tell you what, you
61:55 – want to know what’s wrong? And then I
61:56 – went through and I said, “Where do you
61:57 – live?” She said, “Stubins.” Where do you
61:59 – live? Hitching. These are the people who
62:01 – represent us. Where do you live? Not one
62:03 – of them lived in Luton. I said, “You’re
62:04 – not none of you are even Lutonians.”
62:06 – Yeah. And Muhammad was there. And I
62:08 – said, “You live in Barry Park, don’t
62:09 – you, B?” He said, “Yeah, I do.” Yeah. I
62:11 – said, “I know you do.” So you represent
62:12 – your community. You’re on the ground in
62:14 – your community and you know what’s going
62:15 – on in your community. You lot have got
62:16 – nothing in common with me or any of us.
62:19 – In fact, yeah, you none of you are
62:21 – probably workingass either. You’re
62:23 – middle class. You’ve come into the
62:24 – council. You’re in high ropes 100 grand
62:26 – a year and you’re the people making
62:28 – decisions. So then they said, “Well,
62:29 – what’s wrong?” I said, “Okay, you see
62:31 – this park?” And I took them up to Farley
62:32 – Hill in Luton and this is a problem
62:34 – across this isn’t just what I what I’ve
62:37 – seen in Luton is mirrored for every
62:38 – town. Yeah. the problems of the gangs,
62:40 – the problem of the drugs, the problems
62:41 – of the police, the problems of
62:42 – appeasement, but the problems of funding
62:44 – and neglect of the working class. Yeah.
62:47 – So, I took them up to Farley Hill and I
62:48 – said, “You see that park there? That was
62:50 – built in 1960. This is a predominantly
62:52 – white council estate. So, let’s go down
62:54 – the Muslim community.” So, we drove down
62:55 – the hill. That’s a 330,000
62:57 – state-of-the-art park. Why? How come
63:00 – they’ve got that and we’ve got that? How
63:02 – come? How come? Cuz they they class
63:04 – Muslim community as a regeneration
63:05 – community. How come their their
63:07 – community centers are free? How come for
63:09 – their kids to go play football is free
63:10 – and ours is not? Yeah. We have to pay5
63:12 – pound each which we don’t have. Yeah.
63:14 – So, so everything’s built for this and
63:16 – nothing’s built for this. And if you
63:18 – look at the achievements of
63:18 – working-class kids now, white working
63:20 – class, the biggest academic
63:21 – underachievers, there’s a reason for
63:22 – that and it’s what I’ve experienced my
63:24 – whole life. It’s the two-tier policing,
63:25 – the two-tier funding, the two-tier
63:27 – council, the the acceleration for this
63:29 – community and the ignoring and neglect
63:32 – of this community. So, there’s so many
63:33 – different things that played into it,
63:34 – but the English Defense League went
63:36 – bang. We travel around the country. Um I
63:39 – think I think in hindsight now we’re
63:41 – lucky no one was killed. We’re lucky
63:43 – there weren’t a sectarian conflict when
63:45 – I think in 2014 was it? Six Muslims got
63:48 – caught with guns, bombs, IDs on the way
63:50 – to kill us. They got 30 years in prison.
63:52 – All the that if they would have
63:54 – successfully targeted an English
63:56 – demonstration, this country would have
63:57 – blown up. So and I think so I get to
63:59 – 2014, I have a refreshing moment in jail
64:02 – at the time as well thinking about my
64:03 – life. Where’s it heading? What’s going
64:05 – on? what’s our what’s our objectives and
64:07 – at that point I decided to leave the
64:08 – street protest element the Joe why as
64:11 – well every interview if I was sitting in
64:13 – now leading the English fence league
64:14 – you’d both be grilling me on negative
64:16 – behavior of members of the English fence
64:18 – yeah rightfully so yeah cuz some of it
64:20 – was moronic yeah but we were never
64:22 – talking about the issue we were I think
64:24 – any opportunity I got where I should be
64:26 – talking on chat shows and news shows I
64:28 – want to talk about the problems this
64:30 – country faces I want to talk about what
64:31 – I’ve seen it wasn’t it wasn’t that
64:33 – wasn’t happening
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66:13 – >> Well, this is the issue, isn’t it,
66:14 – Tommy? And it speaks to,
66:17 – you know, the reason we had to postpone
66:19 – the interview, right? Because
66:21 – I I think uh I don’t know, tell me what
66:24 – you think, but I think partly the way
66:25 – you’ve been treated historically is but
66:27 – by class. I don’t think anyone can deny
66:29 – that, right? Because you’re making the
66:31 – same points as Douglas Murray. You know,
66:33 – Douglas Douglas speaks very very very
66:36 – well. You do too in your own way, right?
66:38 – But you make the same points, but the
66:40 – difference is Douglas is never on camera
66:42 – punching people.
66:44 – >> Do you know what I mean? And so I think
66:46 – it’s partly about class, but partly it’s
66:48 – also about that element of it. This is
66:49 – why I asked you about the Fubu Hooligan
66:51 – stuff because I think a lot of people I
66:52 – I tell you my opinion right because we
66:54 – talked about this before before we we
66:56 – started. We haven’t had you on for a
66:59 – long time even though a lot of people
67:00 – have wanted us to and it’s always the
67:02 – concern for people who have an audience
67:04 – right which is I think the points you’re
67:07 – making on many many issues are
67:08 – incredibly important and I and and much
67:11 – more than that you’ve been proven right
67:13 – let’s just be honest about it right on
67:14 – on the grooming gangs on the two-tier
67:17 – policing and all of these things that
67:18 – you’re talking about but the worry
67:20 – always is is
67:22 – we we can all feel now the country is a
67:24 – I mean it’s a fever pitch right we can
67:26 – all feel
67:27 – And the question for all of us is what
67:29 – is it that we are amplifying? What where
67:32 – where are we trying to take this? Do you
67:33 – know what I mean? So when people see you
67:35 – getting involved in all these physical
67:37 – altercations and fights and you know
67:39 – you’re standing some guy’s been knocked
67:41 – out, the worry for a lot of people is I
67:43 – might agree with what he’s saying, but
67:46 – by but by pursuing this further, are we
67:49 – actually increasing the risk of a lot of
67:51 – violence? And that’s a worry.
67:53 – >> I understand. Do you see why I totally
67:55 – understand? So, so, so people
67:57 – understand, if I hadn’t had the
67:58 – upbringing I’d had and I hadn’t grown up
68:00 – basically off the streets of Luton, then
68:02 – the first punch in the nose I got and
68:04 – the first threat to my life, I’d have
68:06 – run away and I would never would have
68:07 – stood in the face of Islam and never
68:08 – would have stood and continued saying,
68:10 – “No, no, no.” Yeah.
68:12 – >> It was my upbringing that done that and
68:14 – my background that done that. But
68:15 – there’s not one single image of me or
68:17 – video of me being an aggressor. Yeah.
68:19 – I’m defending myself. So for example,
68:21 – last week the incident last week,
68:23 – >> I’m not lucky enough to have a half a
68:24 – million pound security like Nigel
68:25 – Farage. Yeah. I challenged Nigel Farage
68:27 – to walk the country with no security and
68:29 – tell me he you won’t end up seeing him
68:31 – getting attacked. You we’ve seen him get
68:32 – an egg on him even when he’s got 20
68:34 – security. Yeah. Well, go and walk
68:35 – through the towns that I walk through. I
68:36 – walk everywhere on my own, lads. Yeah.
68:38 – Everywhere. So last week as a perfect
68:40 – example is I’ve been out in London and I
68:42 – uploaded pictures. There was some lovely
68:43 – encounters with Muslim lads. Everything
68:45 – was good. I spent the whole day in
68:46 – London. I was in Parliament Square. I
68:48 – had Brian Rose podcast. I’m going about
68:51 – my business and unfortunately I’ve had
68:53 – to for 15 years I’ve been beaten
68:56 – unconscious in Essex. I’ve been beaten
68:58 – in Luton. I’ve had to sit my kids down.
69:00 – I remember my face was rearranged. Yeah.
69:02 – Absolutely rearranged. A car pulled over
69:04 – cuz I was I’ve been getting jumped on on
69:05 – the side of the street by a gang of
69:07 – Pakistanis. And the car if the car the
69:09 – car driver said when he when I woke up,
69:11 – if I didn’t pull over, you’d be dead.
69:13 – They were they’re jumping on you
69:14 – non-stop. And then my face was out. I
69:16 – remember having to tell my kids. It was
69:17 – just before Christmas. My kids are only
69:18 – this big. So I said I got kicked in the
69:20 – face by Santa’s reindeers. Yeah. So but
69:23 – I remember having to sit these stories
69:25 – down. And for too long I said I’m not a
69:28 – punchback. I’m not a punchback. So for
69:31 – example, last week I wish I had security
69:34 – that could intervene and tell people to
69:35 – stand back and don’t start on him. But
69:37 – for example, this gentleman now
69:39 – unfortunately
69:40 – there’s been time and time again where
69:42 – I’ve had the need to defend myself. And
69:44 – I’m not going to apologize for being a
69:45 – man either. Yeah, I will defend myself
69:48 – if I’m put. And do you know for too many
69:50 – years know when I started the English
69:50 – Defense League, I realized, damn, the
69:52 – police want to get me. Prison’s a
69:53 – dangerous place for me. And I sort of
69:54 – had my hands behind my back because how
69:57 – I would have reacted and I had to change
69:58 – how I’d react. How I would have reacted
70:00 – as a young man in Luton with someone
70:01 – calling me a [  ] I probably banged him 70:03 – out as a kid. Yeah. I probably wouldn’t 70:05 – have tolerated that. Then I realized, 70:07 – well, I have to tolerate some music. 70:09 – Yeah, I’ve got to walk around and and I 70:10 – I learned very quickly to use my mouth 70:12 – rather than my hands as as as I become 70:14 – this figure that has to tolerate people 70:16 – who have and I don’t blame even the 70:18 – gentleman last week. I don’t blame him 70:20 – for having a hatred of me. Yeah. Because 70:22 – he has a hatred built of me. 70:24 – >> What happened, Tommy? 70:25 – >> What happened was I walked through the 70:26 – train station and now I’ve seen the CCTV 70:27 – as well. Yeah. When I say this was the 70:30 – most scary week of my life. 70:32 – >> There’s been an instant 70:34 – I sent you the voice note. Yeah. Of me I 70:36 – contact. So I’m I’m walking through and 70:39 – what I now know is a gentleman steps off 70:41 – the train at St. Pancress. So he’s ready 70:42 – to leave St Pancress. I come into St. 70:44 – Pancress and I go to get my train. He 70:46 – sees me and he belines for me. He 70:49 – follows me but he don’t just follow me. 70:50 – He gets here in my face. Yeah. He’s in 70:52 – my face. He’s confronting me, telling me 70:53 – he’ll lend me, telling me how little I 70:55 – am, screaming at me. I mean screaming at 70:57 – me. Yeah. Screaming at me. And I’m the 70:59 – whole time just going, “Mate, [  ] off.”
71:01 – And I do warn him multiple times. I
71:03 – said, “Look,” and and and what as I was
71:05 – watching, I’m paranoid anyway. I’ve just
71:07 – come out of seven months in solitary
71:08 – confinement. Yeah. I’m pretty on edge. I
71:10 – remember for the last couple of months,
71:12 – I’m not myself anyway. I know that.
71:14 – Yeah. I know that. So, I don’t feel
71:16 – myself just the
71:17 – >> Well, in fact, you did ask to postpone
71:18 – our interview one time because you
71:20 – didn’t feel right.
71:20 – >> Cuz I don’t feel right. Cuz I I felt And
71:23 – I remember going into London to see some
71:24 – do a lady who’s terminally ill, God
71:26 – bless her, she’s died now. I remember
71:28 – going to see her
71:29 – >> and I was like, I’m ready to blow here.
71:32 – Yeah. M
71:32 – >> and I’m really a blow but that I’ve been
71:34 – sat for 7 months on my own and then I’ve
71:36 – been bang thrown out. So I had all this.
71:38 – So I took I made a decision to take a
71:40 – backseat for 2 weeks. I took my son away
71:42 – played paddle walked daily routine. I
71:45 – needed routine. I’ve got all this but as
71:47 – this gentleman comes up to me he’s
71:48 – aggressive. He’s threatening and what a
71:50 – lot of PE and I’m so relieved because as
71:53 – this has gone on basically he follows me
71:55 – for two minutes and he’s getting him
71:57 – away and I’m trying to get around him
71:58 – and I get away from him once and he
71:59 – comes back after me again and and then I
72:02 – say to mate if you come back in with my
72:04 – space I’m going to defend myself cuz in
72:06 – my mind he was just trying to get close
72:07 – enough to snake me. That’s what I was
72:09 – thinking the whole time. I know what
72:10 – you’re doing but I know what you’re
72:12 – doing. So I was trying to move back and
72:13 – I get to the top of the escalators at
72:15 – the stairs and he’s following me. So now
72:17 – I think well he kicked me down the
72:18 – stairs. Yeah. I’m going down to a train.
72:20 – He kick me in front and he was a big
72:21 – fella. If you look at he’s big he was a
72:23 – much bigger it’s not hard to be bigger
72:24 – than me but he was a big fell.
72:25 – >> I then step back to let him go. Say go
72:28 – on you [  ] go. Yeah. You go down the 72:30 – stairs. But he doesn’t go down the 72:31 – stairs. He gets to the top of stairs and 72:32 – he turns on me. And at that point which 72:34 – this is the problem we have at that 72:36 – point let’s just say there is a 72:38 – recording. Yeah. There is a recording 72:41 – that has exactly what he’s saying. Yeah. 72:44 – Now the police are not probably aware of 72:45 – this. They don’t have this. Right. So, 72:47 – there is a recording of exactly what 72:49 – he’s saying. It’s makes very clear who 72:51 – the aggressor is. It makes very clear 72:53 – who who’s who’s threatening who. Yeah. 72:55 – Now, at this point, I just know cuz 72:57 – things happen quick, don’t they? Yeah. 72:58 – This has all happened quick to me. I 73:00 – know I’ve had to defend myself. He’s 73:02 – ended up asleep on the floor. I’ve only 73:05 – hit him once. Yeah. I’ve pushed him and 73:07 – as he continued to come at me the whole 73:09 – time I’m going backwards, but I couldn’t 73:11 – really remember at the time or straight 73:13 – afterwards. So, as soon as this has 73:15 – happened, he don’t look in a good state. 73:16 – Yeah. I’m thinking, right, I’m on London 73:18 – Underground. I’m on my own. Crowds are 73:20 – going to come. This ain’t going to be 73:21 – good. So, I leave. As soon as I leave, I 73:24 – contact the police, which is the 73:25 – recording you would listen to. Contact 73:26 – the police and say, “Look, lads, this 73:28 – has happened. I’ve been walking. I’ve 73:30 – been accosted. I’ve been threatened. 73:31 – I’ve tried to get away multiple times. I 73:33 – had no option. Right. I don’t I don’t Do 73:35 – you think I want to be out fighting?” 73:36 – So, I don’t want to be out 73:37 – >> Well, I do though, Tommy. Yeah. Do you? 73:38 – >> You’re a football hooligan, right? 73:40 – >> No, no. I’m I’m 42 years old. When 73:42 – >> But do you see what I’m saying? I see 73:44 – what you’re saying. 73:44 – >> Have you seen Train Spawning? 73:45 – >> No, I have years ago. But 73:47 – >> do you remember there’s a character in 73:48 – that called Begby, right? Who’s always 73:50 – starting fights. 73:51 – >> And I don’t know if this is true of you, 73:53 – but I’m going to be honest from the 73:54 – outside. 73:55 – >> Yeah. 73:55 – >> It does it does look a bit like that’s 73:58 – that’s that’s that’s your person. You 74:00 – like 74:01 – >> No, but I don’t have a feeling for me. 74:04 – Do you know I’m not big. Do you know the 74:05 – feeling for me? So when he come up here, 74:07 – I was startled. Yeah. And there may be 74:09 – times when people watch me. Yeah. And I 74:11 – may seem confident, right? because I 74:13 – have to seem confident of course 74:14 – >> but at the same time I’m [  ] myself
74:16 – every time I go to jail I’m [  ] 74:17 – myself when I walk down the street 74:19 – sometimes and full ad stop I’m thinking 74:21 – for sake 74:22 – >> but again I’ve learned there’s only one 74:23 – language people understand so there’s 74:25 – only one language 74:26 – >> but do you see all I’m saying is the 74:28 – only reason I’m challenging you is I I I 74:30 – think you’re someone look 74:32 – >> 500 years ago right 74:34 – >> the country would be desperate for 74:36 – people like you right cuz you’d be on 74:39 – the front line fighting some [  ] war
74:40 – right you’re a warrior so when You say I
74:43 – don’t want to be fighting people. I
74:45 – don’t believe it.
74:45 – >> Well, if I wanted to be fighting people,
74:47 – I could have a fight every day cuz
74:48 – people say things to me every day. I
74:49 – don’t want to be fighting people. Least
74:51 – of all a drunk idiot at a train station.
74:53 – All I wanted to do is get home. Now,
74:55 – what this developed into was the worst
74:57 – week of my life because obviously this
74:58 – happened at the train station. I’ve
74:59 – contacted the police said, “Look, lads,
75:01 – what do you want from me? Let me know
75:02 – what I need to do. I’m up for an
75:03 – interview.
75:04 – >> I’m telling you, he he was the
75:06 – aggressor. I’ve had to do this.” Yeah. I
75:09 – contact the police for that. I then go
75:10 – home and then I’m seeing things develop
75:14 – and and blood transfusions. He didn’t
75:16 – have blood transfusions. They made it
75:17 – look like he’s dead. Have you ever seen
75:18 – forensic tents? Like forensic tents full
75:21 – boiler suit officers. I’m thinking he’s
75:23 – dead. He’s dead.
75:25 – >> And then I’m thinking Jesus Christ.
75:27 – >> And then I think there’s not going to be
75:28 – any CCTV. They’re going to get rid of C.
75:31 – This what I’m thinking cuz I don’t trust
75:32 – the system. I think they’re going to get
75:33 – rid of CCTV. They’re going to get rid of
75:35 – it. And then I look and think, right, I
75:38 – know there’s a recording of how this of
75:40 – this last moment. Yeah, I know there is.
75:43 – There’s a recording.
75:44 – >> What do you mean? How do you know?
75:46 – >> Cuz there is a recording. Yeah, there’s
75:48 – there’s there’s a recording. We’ll see
75:50 – if it goes to court cuz the recording
75:51 – get played. What I’m saying is the
75:52 – witnesses the witnesses cuz so the
75:56 – witness statements am I allowed to talk
75:57 – about witness? I’ve got bad condition
75:58 – that I can’t identify the witnesses, but
76:00 – the witnesses say stuff that didn’t
76:03 – happen and it’s on the recording, right?
76:06 – And guess what? The witnesses don’t like
76:08 – me. Yeah.
76:09 – >> Don’t like me. Even the police officer
76:11 – said after interview, “Do you think
76:12 – maybe their negative opinion of you is
76:14 – what’s made them say this?” Because when
76:17 – I get So when I get to the police
76:18 – interview, I’ve obviously contacted the
76:19 – police. And this is where all it’s all
76:21 – mad. The media are chasing me down.
76:23 – They’re in gyms. They’re at people’s
76:25 – houses looking for me in Tenneref. I’m
76:26 – not on the run. They’re telling everyone
76:28 – I’m on the run. I’ve been in contact
76:29 – with the police the whole time. I’ve
76:31 – told the police I’m coming back on
76:32 – Monday because that was my my flight
76:33 – booked was already to come back on
76:34 – Monday. So, I’m coming back into
76:36 – Manchester Monday. They said, “Can you
76:37 – come back back into London?” So, I said,
76:38 – “Okay, I’ll change my flight. I’ll be on
76:40 – this flight going into Luton at this
76:41 – time.” So, I give them my details. I
76:43 – then turn up and there’s police
76:44 – everywhere and I’m thinking, “Well, I’ve
76:46 – arranged to meet you, lads.” And then
76:47 – they’re like, “Are you surprised to see
76:48 – us?” I said, “I’m not surprised to see
76:49 – you cuz it’s me that told you I’m here.”
76:51 – Yeah. But when I get to the police
76:52 – interview, bearing in mind at this
76:54 – point, I’ve had to ring my kids on
76:56 – FaceTime, crying my eyes out, saying,
76:57 – “Kids, I’m gone.” Yeah. I’m I’m watching
77:00 – what’s being said. I think they’re going
77:02 – to remind me. A judge is just going to
77:04 – say, “Put them in jail. I’ll sit in jail
77:06 – now on solitary for a year. GBA 168 me.
77:09 – That’s 10 to 12 years sentence. I think
77:11 – I’m going to spend five, six years. I’m
77:12 – finished. My life’s over.” So for this
77:14 – week, I’m thinking, “My life’s over
77:16 – because I’ve been accosted, threatened,
77:17 – and attacked and I’ve had to defend
77:19 – myself.” It’s like so when people say
77:22 – there are images, there’s an image of me
77:24 – in Hitchin. I don’t know if you’ve seen
77:25 – the video where some young hooded
77:28 – Gambian migrants were coughing in an old
77:31 – couple’s face. I don’t know if you’ve
77:32 – seen this. They attack an old couple
77:33 – during CO, give her a black eye, I’m
77:35 – with my kids, I get out of the car, I
77:37 – end up fighting three of them. Yeah. So,
77:38 – yeah, I’m again, maybe if I was like 90%
77:42 – of the other men in England, I’d have
77:43 – drove off and pretended I didn’t see it.
77:44 – Yeah, maybe. And the same with
77:47 – threatening me. So if you’re going to
77:48 – come up to me and threaten me and and
77:51 – and want to commit violence on me, I’m
77:54 – going to defend myself. I don’t want to.
77:55 – Yeah. I don’t want to. And when you say
77:57 – football violence, just so people
77:58 – understand again. So it may so people
78:01 – understand the football element in it.
78:02 – Football met lads who go to football
78:04 – have usually got good jobs. They work 5
78:06 – days a week.
78:07 – >> They’re good people. They’re workingass
78:08 – men, but they don’t mind a a rival punch
78:10 – up with other lads. Yeah. It’s not like
78:12 – they’re out robbing people, out
78:14 – terrorizing people, or 20 of them are
78:16 – jumping one person. If 20 lads started
78:18 – booting one lad at football, the other
78:19 – lads wouldn’t let let it happen. Yeah,
78:21 – >> they wouldn’t let it happen. I know it
78:23 – sounds mad. I remember going to Bristol.
78:25 – We went to Bristol and there was 11 of
78:26 – us and 60 of them. This where I was
78:28 – probably 18 or something. There was a
78:29 – big fight on the bridge. One of our lads
78:31 – got knocked out. We’ve all had to give
78:32 – it legs. And then we rung his phone and
78:34 – the Bristol lads answered it. We said,
78:36 – “We’ve got him here. He’s in the pub
78:37 – with us.” Right. And I said, “Is he all
78:39 – right?” They said, “Yeah, we’ll drop him
78:40 – a meter.” And they’ve dropped him off.
78:42 – So there’s like
78:43 – >> I see what you’re saying. I guess I
78:44 – guess the only reason I would
78:45 – challenging it is
78:47 – >> it it hard. I’m I’m not judging Tommy
78:50 – genuinely, but I’m just saying my honest
78:52 – opinion, right? And we can disagree
78:54 – about it. When you say you don’t want to
78:56 – get in a fight, I’m like Tommy, you
78:58 – spent most of your most of your youth
79:01 – going to football to have a fight and
79:03 – now you’re sitting here saying don’t
79:05 – want to get in a fight.
79:06 – >> I don’t want to get in a fight with
79:07 – random people walking down the street
79:09 – and most of them and I’ll give you
79:11 – another example. There’s a lad called
79:12 – Bob. Yeah. So I’m out in Hitchin.
79:14 – Hitching’s lovely by the way.
79:16 – >> Different world. And I realized there’s
79:17 – places outside Lut. I thought Jesus what
79:20 – I think’s normal is not normal.
79:21 – >> Yeah.
79:22 – >> I thought growing up this is normal.
79:24 – This violence is normal. This is normal.
79:26 – >> Everyone has aggression. You if you look
79:28 – at someone you might be in a fight.
79:29 – >> I went to Hitchin. Wow. What a lovely
79:31 – place. I thought but I went to Hitchin
79:34 – and I was out and this bloke went online
79:36 – and he put anyone who wants to attack
79:38 – get Tommy Robson is in this pub. Yeah. I
79:41 – was with my friend and both our
79:42 – partners. When I left the pub, there’s
79:44 – six lads waiting. I get rushed. They
79:46 – come at me again. I catch him. This
79:49 – attack. I get a blood clot. So, this
79:51 – gentleman this week had a blood clot. I
79:52 – had a blood clot here. I had to go have
79:53 – an operation. This happens. I then go I
79:56 – go home and on the on the on the
79:58 – business ownership hub of pubs in
80:00 – Hitchin because they’re all part of some
80:02 – group. They’re all saying the farright
80:04 – racist Tommy Robinson was in Hitchin
80:05 – fighting last night. And one by one
80:07 – they’re going he’s barred. He’s barred.
80:09 – He’s barred. I’m thinking I’ve never
80:11 – caused a problem in it. How am I getting
80:12 – barred? I got attacked. So I’ve gone to
80:14 – the pub and said, “How are you barring
80:15 – me? I didn’t do anything wrong last
80:16 – night. I got rushed or it was 2 days
80:18 – later.” So I found the gentleman who who
80:20 – said this and I found his address and I
80:22 – went to his house. He’s in Lechworth.
80:24 – Knocked on the door. Sister answered.
80:26 – She said, “What the are you doing here?”
80:27 – So tell Bob I’m here. Tell him to come
80:29 – outside. Yeah. This the man who promoted
80:31 – violence against me. He wouldn’t come
80:32 – outside. He shut the door. So I put my
80:33 – phone number through the letter box.
80:35 – Leave my phone number there. And then I
80:37 – go home and I put a picture of him on my
80:38 – on my social media at the time. I said,
80:40 – “You need to call me, mate.” Yeah. And
80:41 – then I get a text message. Sorry, Tommy.
80:43 – I was drunk. Yeah. Tongue and cheek
80:45 – moment. Said, “It’s not a tongue and
80:46 – cheek moment. I got violently attacked.
80:48 – You need to see me, mate.” Yeah. I said,
80:49 – “Well, I’m just going to come back
80:50 – around.” Right. So, he agreed to meet me
80:52 – next day in Cafe Rouge in Hitch. So,
80:54 – I’ve walked into Cafe Rouge and he sat
80:55 – there with his two little steads. He’s
80:57 – an Asian lad. Two little juice heads.
80:59 – And I said, “Come outside.” And they
81:00 – said, “You can talk in here.” I said,
81:01 – “Shut up. If I wanted to get him, I’ll
81:03 – get him.” Yeah. I said, “So, just come
81:04 – outside.” Right. And as he comes
81:05 – outside, my mate’s waiting for the
81:06 – camera. I said, tell the camera why I
81:08 – should be violently attacked. And he’s
81:10 – like, I said, I got violently attacked
81:12 – because of you. Yeah, but you’re calling
81:14 – me the thug. Yeah. You’ve incited
81:15 – violence against me. Why should I be
81:17 – attacked? He goes, well, you hate the
81:18 – immigrants. I said, okay, let’s start
81:20 – there. I don’t hate the immigrants. My
81:22 – mom was an immigrant. Most of the people
81:23 – I love of sons of immigrants or
81:24 – immigrants, so I don’t hate the
81:25 – immigrants. So, what else you think? You
81:27 – want to deport all the Muslims? Never
81:28 – said that. That would mean deporting
81:29 – people I love. Yeah. So when I went
81:31 – through all of the things he thinks we
81:33 – established, I don’t believe any of
81:35 – them. Yeah. So you hate me because you
81:37 – think I stand for sake. And at the end
81:39 – of it, I said, “I’m going to do Bob.”
81:40 – And I shook his hand. Yeah. We we he was
81:42 – open border policy. He we had totally
81:43 – different views, but he was all right.
81:45 – Yeah. And he goes, “I’m sorry. You
81:47 – shouldn’t have been attacked.” I said,
81:47 – “So Bob, I’m going to delete this. I’m
81:49 – never going to share this video.” Yeah.
81:50 – This video ain’t going out. I’ll shake
81:51 – your hand on it. Well, forget it. I’m
81:53 – going to delete everything. Yeah. But
81:55 – you you’re making these judgments. The
81:56 – nearest moss to you is in my town. You
81:59 – don’t know what you’re talking about.
82:00 – Yeah, you don’t know what you’re talking
82:01 – about. And and then so then I found out
82:03 – who the kids were that beat me up.
82:04 – There’s six of them. And I went and
82:06 – found him. He lived in a 1.4 million
82:07 – pound house with his mom and dad. You
82:09 – little students. So they they didn’t
82:10 – really well they they beat me up cuz
82:12 – there was six of them, but they couldn’t
82:13 – fight. And then when I went to his
82:15 – house, I knocked on the door and his
82:16 – mom’s answered. I said, “You need to
82:18 – tell your son I’m here. Where is he?”
82:19 – She goes at university. I said, “Get him
82:21 – on the phone and tell him I’m here.” So
82:22 – she’s rang him up and he said, “Mom,
82:24 – ring the police. Quick, ring the
82:25 – police.” I said, “Don’t ring the police.
82:27 – Trust me, don’t ring the police.” And
82:28 – I’m thinking, don’t ring the police cuz
82:29 – your son’s in trouble. I’m not in
82:30 – trouble. Yeah. So anyway, she rings the
82:32 – police. I then leave. Police run away.
82:35 – The copper rings me. Says to Tommy,
82:37 – “Right, we understand you’ve been to a
82:39 – house today.” He goes, “Now, I’ll be
82:41 – honest with you. I I went to meet at the
82:44 – police.” He goes, “I’ll be honest with
82:45 – you. We would have thought you were
82:46 – there to threaten, but we’ve spoke to
82:48 – Bob, whose house you went to previously,
82:50 – and Bob spoke very highly of you.” Yeah.
82:53 – I said, “How come he spoke to Bob?” And
82:55 – they said, “Cuz you put the picture of
82:56 – him online.” I goes, “Okay.” So I put a
82:58 – picture in my mind. So you went to see
82:59 – Bob, but you saw what he said then. So
83:01 – you saw that he incited violence, but
83:03 – you went still to see him as a victim
83:05 – when I’m the victim. So you know I’ve
83:07 – been attacked by six men. They then
83:09 – prosecuted. So this has gone on and I
83:11 – said, “Mate, I I was just going to see
83:13 – the kid to challenge him, which is what
83:15 – I do with most people if on this issue,
83:17 – which is why people say, “Oh, you’re
83:18 – threatening Islam. I’m challenging him.”
83:20 – The police end up charging these kids.
83:22 – Now this kid was a university student.
83:24 – He’s probably never been in trouble in
83:25 – his life. Yeah. And I didn’t want him
83:26 – getting charged. And I said to the
83:27 – police, I don’t want him to get done.
83:29 – Yeah. I wanted to have a conversation.
83:30 – And through that, one of his friend’s
83:32 – boss rang me up, who was friends with my
83:34 – friend. I said, “What’s going on?” I
83:35 – said, “I don’t want them to lose their
83:36 – careers.” Yeah. I don’t. Right. They’re
83:39 – stupid. They’re they’ve attacked me, but
83:41 – I they need to learn a lesson. And then
83:43 – I I didn’t turn up at court, so they the
83:45 – case got kicked out. But that is a prime
83:47 – example of when I went through this kid,
83:49 – the six kids that attacked me. They’re
83:50 – all white. I went through their school
83:52 – group, all their photos, not a single
83:54 – non non-white friend. They if ever
83:56 – there’s white privilege, it’s them.
83:57 – Yeah. Yet they hate me from Luton when
84:01 – they have no idea what it’s like. So
84:03 – they have no idea what it’s like living
84:05 – there. And that’s the majority of the
84:06 – problem. So even this gentleman who’s
84:08 – confronted me at the train station this
84:09 – week and it hasn’t ended well for him.
84:10 – Even him, I don’t blame him because he’s
84:13 – feeding off probably a narrative that
84:15 – you probably swallowed 10 years ago.
84:17 – He’s racist. He’s extreme. He’s a Nazi.
84:19 – All the things the media told you. You
84:20 – know, why did the media tell you that?
84:22 – Because they didn’t want to talk about
84:23 – the grooming gangs. They didn’t want to
84:24 – talk about Islamic radicalization. They
84:25 – don’t want to deal with these issues cuz
84:27 – these issues are their policy failures.
84:30 – They’ve failed. This issue that we’re
84:32 – all worried about now, the reason why MS
84:34 – are out on the streets, the reason why
84:35 – there’s protest outside the migrants
84:36 – hotel is because of their failures.
84:38 – They’ve imported this problem into the
84:39 – country and they’ve tried to scare the
84:41 – hell out of everyone. And when I say the
84:42 – level of we were talking about these
84:44 – grooming gang inquiries now, when I
84:46 – started the English Defense League in
84:47 – the first six months, I had free police
84:48 – rates. They fabricated charges. They put
84:51 – me under bail conditions. Bail
84:52 – conditions not to contact the English
84:53 – Defense League. The bail date, Yorkshire
84:55 – police traveled down, then bearing in
84:57 – mind robs in Yorkshire. Yorkshire police
85:00 – traveled down to my mom’s and my kids
85:01 – house, raided them with machine guns.
85:03 – Yeah. Then gave me bail conditions for a
85:06 – criminal damage on a 30 door. They said
85:09 – I was in a hotel. They said I damaged a
85:11 – 30 damage. And then the bail conditions
85:13 – was not to send an email, not to be in a
85:16 – group of two or more people with the
85:17 – English fency. My bail date was the same
85:19 – date I was due to talk about grooming in
85:21 – in Yorkshire and I put in a complaint
85:23 – through the IPCC and said this is all
85:25 – politically motivated. The reason for
85:27 – this arrest is fabricated. You’ve done
85:29 – it to stop me talking. It took two years
85:31 – for the results. They just accepted it
85:32 – all. Yeah, we did. But remember at this
85:35 – time no one was talking about grooming.
85:37 – No one knew about grooming. The police
85:38 – were still in full on full on cover up
85:40 – mode. If you look at the look at who was
85:41 – in charge of robin police during the
85:43 – biggest scandal which is 2006 to 2012
85:45 – probably the the officer in charge of
85:48 – police is now in charge of
85:48 – counterterrorism.
85:50 – I face counterterrorism trial next month
85:52 – in in October. It’s like everyone who
85:54 – had dirty hands. It’s why Labour can’t
85:55 – allow this inquiry cuz every every
85:57 – counselor in Labor or worker within the
86:00 – council who was in charge 15 years ago
86:03 – or during the height of this scandal,
86:04 – they’ve all rose to the top. Tommy, when
86:07 – you look back at some of your behavior,
86:09 – do you think that it’s tarnished your
86:11 – message? Um, I think that my behavior
86:14 – was impossible. Like, as a young man
86:17 – walking down the street, I’ll tell
86:19 – anyone, try and talk about Islam. I
86:21 – think cyber karm was it cyber karm? I
86:22 – was on a chat show with her and they’re
86:24 – all attacking me and I was trying to
86:25 – talk about grooming. This is 2010
86:27 – >> and they’re all screaming at me that I’m
86:28 – a racist. All I kept saying is, “What
86:30 – have I said that’s racist?”
86:32 – >> Like, there’s not one thing I’ve ever
86:33 – said that’s racist. Why are you shutting
86:35 – down this debate? And she said, “Well,”
86:37 – and I said, “I’ve got death threats
86:38 – threatening my family.” And she said,
86:39 – “Well, I haven’t got death threats. Do
86:41 – you know why I haven’t got death
86:42 – threats? Because I’m a nice person.”
86:43 – Yeah. And I said, “Try and talk about
86:46 – Islam. You’ll have death threats.” 7
86:48 – years later, she spoke about Islam. And
86:51 – then she’s sitting on loose women
86:52 – crying, saying, “I’ve got death
86:53 – threats.” It’s like, “Welcome to the
86:55 – real world, darling.” Yeah. What has
86:56 – happened to me through having this
86:58 – opinion and speaking out the way I do,
87:00 – it’s destroyed my life. It’s destroyed
87:01 – my wife’s life. It’s destroyed my
87:02 – mother’s life. I live with constant
87:04 – death threats. I’ve got some of them
87:05 – here if you want to read. When we talk
87:06 – about a two-tier policing system, I have
87:08 – to wear a bulletproof vest. I’ve got
87:09 – people wanting to murder me and
87:10 – massacre.
87:10 – >> Well, then stop being a racist and a
87:12 – bigger
87:12 – >> racist. Can you please
87:14 – [Applause]
87:16 – Can you Can you Can you Can you please
87:19 – please explain one thing I’ve ever said?
87:21 – >> I am a British citizen. I was born in
87:23 – this country and I do not spout off
87:25 – rubbish like you do. Why am I saying
87:26 – that’s rubbish? I haven’t got death
87:27 – threats. You know why? It’s cuz I’m a
87:28 – nice person.
87:29 – >> Please explain. If you talk if you talk
87:31 – against Islam, you have death threats.
87:32 – In this culture, it’s even more taboo
87:35 – because once you bring shame to your
87:37 – family, that’s it. You know, you the
87:40 – consequences are you could be killed,
87:43 – you could be ostracized, and literally
87:45 – you just, you know, the whole family
87:47 – splits up. When I came on here to talk
87:49 – about what happened to me, it was a
87:51 – family member. I took me years to come
87:53 – out and say it and, you know, I just did
87:55 – it spontaneously on Loose Women. The
87:57 – repercussions on my family have been
88:00 – horrendous. Did some of them not believe
88:02 – you?
88:02 – >> They didn’t believe me. They had a go at
88:04 – my mom. You know, it went all the way
88:07 – back to Pakistan and the family there.
88:09 – So, look,
88:10 – >> which illustrates perfectly why as a
88:12 – 13year-old or whatever, you wouldn’t
88:13 – come out and say something.
88:14 – >> Absolutely you wouldn’t. So when they
88:16 – talk about my behavior, I don’t think I
88:19 – can I understand people’s questioning of
88:22 – the tactics of the English Defense
88:23 – League or the aggressive street presence
88:25 – of the English Defense League, but
88:27 – without the English Defense League, we
88:28 – still won’t have the conversation about
88:30 – >> But it’s not just the English Defense
88:31 – League, Tommy. So for instance,
88:34 – when I think it was in Leeds’s Crown
88:36 – Court
88:36 – >> where you breached a court order where
88:38 – you’re recording those
88:39 – >> again, I didn’t breach a court order. So
88:41 – let me tell you what,
88:41 – >> okay, you tell me and then we’ll talk.
88:43 – So, so I breached a I I did breach a law
88:46 – in Canterbury court. Yeah. So, basically
88:49 – there was a I read this story. I got
88:50 – contacted by people in Canterbury who
88:53 – said that Muslims running a takeaway. A
88:55 – young 14-year-old girl was drunk. She
88:57 – got lost. She went and asked for
88:58 – directions. They took her upstairs in a
89:00 – mattress and six one by one.
89:02 – >> Mhm.
89:03 – >> All of their DNA was found and they’re
89:05 – all out on bail. One of them has skipped
89:07 – and gone to Italy. They changed the name
89:09 – of the shop and reopened the shop. Yeah.
89:11 – So I was thinking that can’t really be
89:13 – have happened. Yeah. So I’ve gone down
89:14 – there. I’ve gone down to Canterbury.
89:16 – I’ve l stood and watched the shop. I’ve
89:18 – looked at the ownership. Looked at the
89:19 – change of name thinking that’s that’s
89:21 – still the shop. That’s still the same
89:23 – people.
89:24 – >> As I’ve done that, uh kids are walking
89:26 – past going in the shop. So I went up to
89:28 – people and said, “Do you know what these
89:29 – men have done in this shop?” I was like,
89:31 – “What? No.” I’m thinking, “Well, people
89:33 – need to know.” So then I thought,
89:35 – “Right, I’m going to get the men. I’m
89:36 – going to get a picture of them.” So I
89:38 – went outside Canterbury Court cuz the
89:39 – men were starting their first day of
89:40 – trial. Yeah. So I went outside
89:42 – Canterbury Court and they’re already in
89:43 – court. Now I didn’t know at this time
89:45 – that you cannot film on court property.
89:47 – So if you stand on the court steps and
89:49 – film, which is what I done, I filmed
89:51 – myself. The judge let the men use a back
89:53 – exit. So the judge protected the alleged
89:55 – pedophiles alleged. They got 25 years in
89:57 – the end. Yeah. One of them never got but
89:59 – but so at this point I went home after
90:01 – that video. You say protect Tommy, but
90:04 – isn’t that part of what the judge should
90:06 – have done for that case?
90:07 – >> I think what the judge should have done
90:08 – when they had six DNA matches on six ped
90:10 – files, young English child, they should
90:12 – have been in jail on remand, but they
90:13 – weren’t. They were walking the streets.
90:15 – There was still a danger to the
90:16 – community and someone needed to warn the
90:18 – community. Yeah. So, that’s what I went
90:19 – to do. Now, the next morning at 6:00 in
90:21 – the morning, boom, my door goes through
90:23 – and I’m dragged down to Canary Court
90:24 – before the same judge. Yeah.
90:26 – >> Who, bear in mind again, is pretty
90:28 – embarrassing for the judge. She’s let
90:29 – these out of bail. They shouldn’t be out
90:30 – of bail. So then I’m before the judge
90:32 – and she gives me a 3 month suspended
90:33 – sentence. Yeah. Because I breached the
90:35 – law by filming myself on court property.
90:37 – Now after this, have you heard of
90:39 – Kingsley Napoli?
90:40 – >> They’re one of leading London’s leading
90:41 – law firms. Remember I’m a citizen
90:43 – journalist. Yeah. So I haven’t studied.
90:45 – I’ve become a journalist. I’ve gone from
90:47 – street protest movement and I left the
90:49 – English Defense League in 2014 and I
90:52 – went to prison and I come out of prison
90:54 – and Ezra Levant in Canada offered me a
90:57 – job and said please make videos for us.
90:59 – And then I started making videos,
91:01 – realized that instead of talking to
91:02 – people on the street, what I need people
91:04 – to see is what I’ve seen. I need them to
91:06 – understand what I understand now from
91:08 – growing up in Luton, the problems, the
91:09 – dangers. I want that to bring the issues
91:11 – that these lot aren’t talking about into
91:14 – the average home. So we’ll bypass the
91:16 – mainstream media and we’ll have people
91:17 – sitting on their sitting at home in
91:19 – their lounge watching this. Yeah. So
91:20 – that’s I realized this is what we need
91:22 – to be doing. So I become a citizen
91:24 – journalist and I didn’t know the laws.
91:26 – So I said I paid myself to go on a
91:29 – course with Kingsley Napoli where they
91:31 – taught me you cannot assume guilt. I
91:34 – didn’t know all this. Yeah. You can’t
91:35 – say he’s a pile. Yeah. It’s an
91:37 – allegation.
91:38 – >> If someone’s charged with I didn’t know
91:40 – this. If someone’s charged with an
91:41 – attack or
91:42 – >> by by the way I’m only laughing because
91:43 – it sounds funny. To be fair when we
91:45 – started we started this on Exactly. And
91:47 – we we weren’t trained journalists
91:48 – either. We had to have people explain
91:50 – like liel laws cuz we used to joke about
91:52 – you know big corporations they’re all
91:54 – stealing money. They’re all doing this
91:56 – and then somebody will be like you’re
91:57 – going to get done for the
91:58 – >> Halo authority they sue everyone to talk
91:59 – about halal. So again I I went
92:03 – giving context to what you’re saying I
92:04 – went through that same process of trying
92:06 – to understand. So I paid this law firm
92:07 – and went down and had training. We had a
92:09 – training all the time to understand you
92:11 – can say this can’t say this don’t assume
92:13 – guilt and you see if there’s a reporting
92:14 – restriction right this is the government
92:16 – this is on the judiciary website the
92:19 – judge has no power to put a reporting
92:21 – restriction on information that’s
92:23 – already in the public domain. So when
92:25 – the grooming gangs, the police start
92:26 – making arrests and they start charging
92:29 – and bringing court cases against these
92:31 – gangs. 2012 it probably started cases.
92:34 – >> There’s a case in Oxford. In that case
92:36 – in Oxford, what we heard because when
92:38 – there’s a sixe trial and the media are
92:40 – sitting in court, they’re writing
92:42 – everything every day.
92:43 – >> So we’re getting six weeks worth of
92:44 – news. We’re finding out the girls are
92:46 – called gula, dirty gula, so they’re
92:48 – racial crimes against the girls. There’s
92:51 – religious comments against the girls.
92:53 – The girl was heated up an old iron rod.
92:56 – She was 12 years old and he had a letter
92:58 – M and he heated it up and he scolded her
93:00 – bum because she was the property of
93:01 – Muhammad. Another girl they took her
93:03 – tongue and they nailed it to a table.
93:04 – Yeah. Another girl they took to the
93:06 – woods and they poured gasoline over her
93:09 – and to scare the hell out of her. She’s
93:10 – urinating herself in the woods. These
93:12 – are the So we found out a lot of the
93:14 – details here in this one case.
93:16 – >> What the government did after that
93:18 – because whilst they have to deal with
93:19 – it, they don’t want everyone knowing
93:20 – what’s going on. What they then did is
93:22 – they brought in reporting restrictions
93:23 – for every single case. So now, so with
93:25 – the lead case for example, there’s a 6
93:28 – to 8 week trial and there’s reporting
93:29 – restrictions which what that means is
93:31 – they banned any of the details being
93:33 – spoken about until the end of the trial.
93:35 – So instead of getting six weeks worth of
93:36 – news and commentary,
93:38 – >> you get one day’s news at the end. 30
93:39 – men convicted. Yeah. You don’t get the
93:41 – details, you get one day’s news. Yeah.
93:43 – So very clever by the government and
93:44 – that’s what they’ve done on all these
93:45 – trials. So when I went out to leads, I
93:47 – stood outside. I said, “Right.” And if
93:48 – you watch the video, what I said is,
93:50 – “I’ve got Muslim lads I grow up with who
93:52 – would want to punch these men’s head
93:54 – in.” Yeah. For the allegations they
93:55 – face. So again, it’s not all Muslims
93:57 – that are doing this. But there’s a
93:59 – problem here. And I gave the facts of
94:01 – the case that were already in the public
94:03 – domain. Bearing in mind, I’d looked at
94:05 – this gang. I knew what chicken shops
94:06 – they were working in. I knew they were
94:07 – still in contact with kids. I didn’t let
94:09 – on any of that. I said, “These are the
94:10 – men’s names from a BBC website. Here,
94:13 – let me read you their names.” I read the
94:14 – 30 names or obviously 30% of them called
94:16 – Muhammad. All of them are Muslim by one.
94:18 – Yeah. So I read the names, read the
94:20 – alleged crimes, read read the alleged
94:22 – victims. Police then come up to me
94:23 – outside court. They arrest me for breach
94:25 – of the peace. And I say, “What breach of
94:27 – the peace?” I’m then put before the
94:29 – judge. Now he, the judge, Judge Marston,
94:32 – gave me a 13-month prison sentence
94:34 – within 2 hours. So I wasn’t allowed to
94:36 – speak to my own legal brief. They said
94:37 – no. I wasn’t asked if I was guilty or
94:39 – not guilty. I was ced off to prison for
94:41 – 13 months. Yeah. And then 2 hours later,
94:44 – my car’s still outside the court. I’ve
94:45 – gone to work. I’m a journalist. I’ve
94:47 – gone to work. Yeah. But before I’ve done
94:49 – that, I also know the rules of court are
94:51 – if there’s a reporting restriction, it
94:52 – has to be on the door and it has to be
94:54 – on the screen. So I went into court,
94:55 – took a picture of the door, I took a
94:57 – picture of the screen. Yeah. I kept
94:58 – those pictures. I produced them in
94:59 – court. Yeah. There was no report
95:01 – restriction knowledge, but I believed
95:03 – there was a reporting restriction. So I
95:04 – still stuck to the guidelines of if
95:06 – there was a reporting restriction. So I
95:07 – didn’t mention anything other than what
95:09 – the judge has no power to limit. So
95:12 – originally the allegation was I breached
95:14 – a reporting restriction. Yeah. So they
95:16 – lock me up for 13 months. Tell the whole
95:17 – country I plead guilty. I’m sitting
95:18 – watching I’m in jail. I’m I’m
95:20 – transferred from I’m put in HMP Hull 13
95:23 – months. When he put me in jail that day,
95:25 – he let all the we can now call them
95:26 – pedophiles cuz they’re all convicted. He
95:28 – let them go home. One of them packed his
95:29 – suitcase and has never faced justice.
95:31 – >> He was more worried about me than he was
95:33 – about the pedophile. Yeah. So they
95:35 – they’ve all gone to prison. I’m in jail.
95:38 – 10 to 11 weeks I get moved from HMP Hull
95:41 – which has a four 5% Muslim population
95:43 – where I was okay to HMP only which has a
95:45 – 33% Muslim population. Now this was a
95:47 – damaging sentence for me and it was
95:49 – damaging for my mental health. It was
95:50 – dam it changed me as a person. I went
95:52 – into jail one person and come out
95:53 – another because I spent 11 weeks in
95:54 – solic confinement with no food no one to
95:57 – contact because I couldn’t eat the food
95:58 – because it’s by Muslim. I had five tins
95:59 – of tuna that got me for a week. Five tin
96:01 – tins of tuna was all I had. Why was So I
96:04 – went through all this during that prison
96:05 – sentence. They played so many games.
96:06 – They they come to my cell and said,
96:08 – “Where’s your wife?” I said, “I don’t
96:10 – even get a phone. I get a phone call at
96:12 – lunchtime.” Yeah. My wife works in a
96:13 – school. My kids are at school. So, I
96:14 – only got to speak at a weekend. So, I’m
96:16 – sat in this cell all day. What do you
96:17 – mean? Where’s my wife? Well, there’s
96:18 – intelligence. She’s going to be attacked
96:19 – with acid. And then they shut the door.
96:22 – And then that will drive you mad. Yeah.
96:23 – And they knocked on my wife’s door. They
96:25 – knocked on my mom’s door. Giving them
96:26 – all these intelligence. I I’m in there.
96:28 – I get 13 months. And after 11 weeks, it
96:30 – goes to the High Court of London where
96:32 – we find out, not my words again, the
96:35 – entire process was flawed. Judge Masters
96:37 – done nothing that he was supposed to
96:38 – have done. I wasn’t asked to plead
96:40 – guilty or not guilty. I wasn’t given
96:41 – time to prepare prepare anything. So,
96:43 – I’m released from prison. Now, the story
96:45 – they went with was that I breached a
96:47 – report.
96:48 – They then had to change that. Yeah.
96:50 – Because I’m released from prison. I’m
96:52 – let go. I walk out. And at this point,
96:56 – 660,000 people signed a petition
96:58 – demanding my release. 30,000 people
97:00 – marched on parliament. When I come out
97:01 – of prison, the government were doing
97:02 – government funded uh questionnaires on
97:05 – social media about people’s views of me.
97:07 – So, they’re obviously worried saying his
97:10 – popularity’s grown from this case. There
97:12 – was a free Tommy movement worldwide.
97:14 – Gilders flew into London, spoke at a
97:17 – demonstration. He’s now won the election
97:19 – in Holland. um a congressman Gosar Paul
97:23 – Gassar flew in from America and spoke at
97:24 – the same event saying release him now
97:26 – this is outrageous he’s a journalist
97:28 – Americans can’t understand the reporting
97:29 – restriction thing because rather than
97:31 – limit the public in America they just
97:33 – limit the jury they put them in hotels
97:34 – they let the public know everything you
97:36 – can watch live cases
97:37 – >> but this all happens I’m released from
97:39 – prison um I then find out when I’m
97:41 – released that there’s a a documentary
97:43 – being made by Panorama to called to take
97:46 – me down
97:46 – >> yes
97:47 – >> you have you watched Panorama
97:48 – >> y
97:48 – >> what a work of art it was
97:50 – So, so I then find out they’re doing a
97:53 – documentary against me, I send someone
97:55 – undercover into them. So, when I send
97:57 – someone undercover into them, at this
97:59 – same point, the government have took
98:02 – this case back to the old Bailey. Now,
98:04 – when it goes to the old Bailey, now I’ve
98:05 – got a chance to defend myself.
98:06 – >> I produced the pictures that show there
98:08 – was no reporting restriction. I
98:09 – reproduce
98:11 – I produced the judiciary guidance on
98:13 – their own website that the judge has no
98:15 – power to report to limit anything that’s
98:17 – already in the public domain. I produce
98:18 – all this. It goes before the head judge
98:20 – and he kicks it back to the government
98:22 – and lets me go. There’s a video of me
98:23 – coming out of court. We’re all singing.
98:24 – It’s great. It gets kicked back to the
98:26 – government. It’s the case is gone. Yeah.
98:29 – I then produced a documentary called
98:30 – Panorama where I exposed that Panorama
98:34 – was being used. It basically had the
98:36 – head of Panorama sitting down telling
98:38 – people what to say in interview, making
98:40 – agreements and deals with people, making
98:42 – sexual allegations against me. If this
98:44 – documentary would have gone out, it
98:45 – would have finished me. I’d be finished.
98:46 – Yeah. Maybe that’s what’s happening.
98:48 – Russell Brand. Who knows? Maybe it’s
98:49 – what’s happening with other people. Who
98:50 – knows? I don’t trust anything anymore.
98:51 – Yeah. But Panorama, I produce a counter
98:54 – documentary to it which ends their
98:56 – documentary. And I produce it and
98:58 – release it online. It has 2 million
98:59 – views in 48 hours.
99:01 – >> From this, I’m deleted off of every
99:03 – social media. And the attorney general
99:05 – reprosecutes me for the offense. That’s
99:08 – gone. Yeah. I’m taken back to court. Do
99:10 – you know what they’ve done? The judge
99:11 – that rem the judge the head judge of the
99:13 – old Bailey who removed him and you can
99:14 – look this up. The head judge of the old
99:16 – Bailey who said no and sent it back to
99:18 – the government. They removed him and
99:20 – they replaced him with the first ever
99:21 – head female judge. Dame Victoria Sharp.
99:23 – >> I then go before Dane Victoria Sharp.
99:25 – Yeah.
99:26 – >> And this is I should do a documentary
99:28 – about it to show people what happened.
99:30 – When I’m outside Leeds Crown Court, what
99:32 – I said in my video is I said to the
99:34 – media, to the journalists who have
99:35 – harassed me even this week, harassing
99:37 – me, flying to Tenneref, you’re always
99:39 – flying to my holidays. I said, “Instead
99:41 – of harassing me, why don’t you harass
99:43 – these men? They’ve 100 kids. Why aren’t
99:46 – you at their businesses? Why aren’t you
99:48 – taking pictures of their families
99:49 – instead of targeting me?” I said, “So,
99:51 – don’t harass me. Harass them.” But I’m
99:53 – It’s very clear if you watch the context
99:54 – of the video that I’m talking to the
99:56 – media. D Victoria Sharp cuts that video
99:59 – and says that I caused fear alarm to the
100:03 – Muslim pedophiles as they walked into
100:05 – court because I asked
100:07 – >> to be fair Tommy because I know people
100:08 – in that courtroom they also said then
100:10 – these were people who were just involved
100:12 – in the case but not the m Muslim
100:14 – pedophiles. They were scared because
100:16 – there was an element of the crowd that
100:18 – looked pretty menacing.
100:20 – >> No, that well not on my case it was just
100:22 – me. My first case it was just me. Yeah.
100:24 – So my first case I as I walked into
100:25 – court I said all I said to him very
100:27 – calmly how’d you feel about your
100:28 – verdict? He said you ri your mom. Okay
100:32 – not a surprise for me hearing that from
100:34 – you but that’s it. Yeah.
100:36 – >> It’s like okay so
100:38 – >> I mean that’s one way to incriminate
100:40 – credible threat right there. Right. So
100:43 – then so all I asked was that as a
100:45 – journalist. Yeah. All I asked was that.
100:47 – So when when Dane Victoria Sharp has me
100:49 – in court, what I done is as I walked
100:51 – into court and all the journalists, a
100:52 – whole scrum of them come around me. I
100:54 – just showed her the video. I said,
100:56 – “Well, what’s the difference?” Cuz look
100:58 – what they just done to me.
100:59 – >> Yeah.
100:59 – >> That’s all I’ve done to them. So if I
101:01 – made them feel unsafe, they’ve made me
101:03 – feel unsafe. No. Right. But this is
101:05 – where they can show me the man, I’ll
101:06 – find the crime. Yeah.
101:07 – >> All right. We’re getting into the weeds
101:09 – here. Listen, let’s talk about what
101:11 – we’re actually
101:11 – >> Well, they sent me back to jail for that
101:12 – for causing alarm and distress to the
101:14 – Muslim pen force. They give me another
101:15 – 10 months. So I spent I spent time in
101:16 – solitary. They sent me back into Bel
101:18 – Marsh for a crime I’ve already sent jail
101:20 – for and they and deplatformed me. I was
101:22 – deleted off YouTube, deleted off
101:23 – Facebook, made a made a dangerous
101:25 – person. The reason and the point of this
101:28 – is all because I exposed the BBC. All
101:30 – because I made a documentary. Watch it
101:31 – panama at trfilms.co.uk.
101:34 – All my documentaries are there. I’m not
101:36 – just saying it. My journalism and
101:37 – investigative journalism I think it’s
101:39 – the best in the country.
101:40 – >> Okay. So go for it. Do you want to
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102:45 – >> What I’m really interested in, Tommy,
102:47 – and I think it’s really important to
102:48 – have this conversation properly, right?
102:51 – Is you talk about the fact that you you
102:55 – you’re very smart guy. I can tell very
102:57 – smart. We’ve we’ve sat across from some
102:58 – of the most intelligent people in the
102:59 – world. You’re a smart guy, right? But
103:01 – you were not educated. You just had
103:03 – experiences when you were growing up. Is
103:04 – that fair to say? Right.
103:05 – >> That’s fair to say. So you you you know
103:06 – this, you know this, you you’ve seen
103:08 – that, you’ve seen this happen to your
103:09 – cousin. All of these things are going
103:10 – on. You experience things. But then, and
103:13 – this is where I really want to hear your
103:14 – opinion, right? Is you started to
103:17 – actually study, you started to look at
103:19 – Islam, you read the Quran, you you tried
103:22 – to understand the scriptural part of all
103:24 – of this, right?
103:25 – >> And this is really where I think a lot
103:26 – of the conversation is now at, which is
103:28 – about Islam and the West compatibility.
103:34 – Why is it that things are becoming more
103:35 – tense? Why is it that thing you talk
103:37 – about how when Muslims fight non-Muslims
103:40 – even your Muslim friends will join them
103:42 – rather than you? Right. So what is it
103:46 – that you’ve learned and what is it that
103:48 – you believe about Islam? Can you explain
103:50 – that part to people?
103:51 – >> Yeah. So 2010 it’s a Quran. 2010 I’m in
103:55 – jail. I’m doing 22 weeks of solitary
103:57 – confinement at that point.
103:58 – >> Yeah.
103:58 – >> For what?
103:59 – >> For illegally entering America. Stupid
104:01 – move.
104:01 – >> Yeah. Do you know I’ll tell you the
104:03 – truth. Um I sort of like lived my life
104:07 – where I think if you worry about
104:08 – consequence you’re never going to bring
104:09 – about change and I wanted change. Yeah.
104:11 – So I felt at that time in 200 I went to
104:14 – America 2009 or 10. I was detained at
104:17 – JFK and deported
104:19 – >> and I thought no I’ve got an important
104:20 – message to give America and I so I went
104:22 – again on a friend’s passport. I got in.
104:24 – Yeah. I got in and I gave a speech
104:26 – called a warning to America. And what
104:28 – I’ve always said is I wish someone come
104:29 – to my town 30 years ago and said listen
104:32 – this is what’s going to happen unless
104:33 – you stop it. So I went to America
104:35 – knowing what I was doing was wrong
104:36 – knowing it was risky. I thought I’d end
104:38 – up in jail in America but I didn’t. I
104:39 – got detained here when I got back and I
104:42 – spent 22 weeks in solitary confinement.
104:43 – Now a Muslim outreach.
104:44 – >> Mate, you know what? You’re insane. You
104:46 – know that like from what I’ve seen of
104:49 – American prison that is not a place you
104:50 – want to go to voluntarily.
104:52 – crazily. Crazily I thought I thought at
104:55 – the time we remember we began the
104:57 – English Defense League. I and I I’m a
104:59 – deep thinker. Yeah.
105:00 – >> Yeah.
105:00 – >> I believe this country is in danger and
105:03 – I believe my children are in danger and
105:05 – I believe the enjoyment and freedoms
105:07 – we’ve all had are going to be eroded and
105:09 – taken and the kids won’t have them. And
105:11 – this is far bigger than me or my kids.
105:12 – This is about a generation of our kids.
105:14 – And I believe that and I believed it
105:16 – since my since growing up.
105:17 – >> I agree with you.
105:18 – >> So when this was starting
105:19 – >> What do you mean by freedoms by the way?
105:21 – I mean that the ability to speak um
105:23 – because they just cail and suppress and
105:25 – it suits the government as well. So they
105:28 – create the problem a lot of the time
105:29 – which they’re doing and I think maybe
105:30 – I’ve played my part in that role where
105:32 – they want us all clashing with each
105:33 – other cuz as we’re clashing with each
105:34 – other we’re not looking at them
105:36 – >> and they want everyone separated into
105:38 – gay, straight, black, white, BLM, this
105:40 – group, that group. You’re all waring
105:42 – with each other. And whilst you’re
105:43 – waring with each other, they’re
105:44 – implementing so many laws that you’re
105:46 – not not even listen about. and all those
105:47 – laws are going to cail and prohibit your
105:49 – speech and your ability to even have
105:51 – discussions on any of these issues. And
105:53 – the reason being that
105:54 – >> most of the issues are coming from the
105:55 – government. It’s their failure. It’s all
105:57 – their problems. I don’t blame Muslims
105:58 – for coming here. I don’t blame Muslims
105:59 – in the UK for wanting Sharia law because
106:01 – this tells them to live. So I don’t
106:02 – blame them.
106:03 – >> Let’s come back to that. So So you got
106:05 – to America. You you because you you
106:07 – thought you had an important message. Uh
106:09 – you
106:10 – >> I spent two days in New York. You know,
106:11 – if you know you know if I knew I was
106:12 – going to do 22 weeks on sol confinement,
106:14 – I’d spent a few months touring, wouldn’t
106:16 – I?
106:16 – >> Yeah. I spent 2 days. I’ve got 22 weeks
106:18 – in solitary. Whilst I’m in there, I get
106:19 – sent a Quran by Muslims.
106:21 – >> And um to try and convert me.
106:24 – >> So I take the Quran. I think right, I’ve
106:25 – got a lot of time in my hands.
106:27 – >> Mhm.
106:27 – >> Let’s have a look at this book. Right.
106:29 – Now, I don’t know how many people know
106:30 – this, but the Quran is not in in
106:32 – chronological order. I didn’t know this.
106:34 – So one thing Muhammad says one day is
106:35 – next to something he says 20 years
106:37 – later. So for you to try and you any of
106:39 – us to try and make sense, it’s like what
106:40 – the Christians used to do. They wanted
106:42 – everyone illiterate so they could
106:44 – control the population. Yeah. M
106:45 – >> the Quran is like an encrypted war
106:47 – manual that you can’t make sense of and
106:49 – it’s important that you can make sense
106:50 – of it cuz abrogation in Islam means
106:53 – whatever Muhammad says later in his life
106:54 – supersedes what he says earlier. So if
106:56 – there’s two contradictory verses, if he
106:57 – says love the Jews and then later he
106:59 – says kill the Jews, then which one did
107:01 – he say later? This one matters. This
107:03 – prohibits this one. So they give me the
107:04 – Quran. And then I thought, right, let me
107:06 – make a few points here. Let me make do
107:08 – not be friends with Christians or Jews.
107:11 – And I challenge anyone to do this. Pick
107:13 – up a Quran and go through and make
107:16 – reference to the verses that tell you
107:18 – not to be friends with Christians or
107:19 – Jews. And I started writing these verses
107:21 – and I had pages them and I was like, it
107:23 – was like a jigsaw just fell into place.
107:25 – Everything I’ve seen growing up, the the
107:27 – Muslim playground, the Muslim dinner,
107:29 – the friends who side with them, well,
107:32 – they’re taught from a little age
107:33 – supremacy, they’re taught not to be
107:35 – friends with us. They can’t be friends
107:36 – with us. 70% of this book talks about
107:38 – us, how they need to treat us. So, as
107:41 – I’m reading it, I started making sense
107:43 – of it. And that was my and I didn’t stop
107:45 – after that, if I’m honest. I I didn’t
107:47 – stop learning. And then I got when I got
107:49 – out of jail, I thought, right, many
107:51 – people watching this probably just think
107:52 – Jesus is like Muhammad. Muhammad is like
107:54 – Jesus. Two prophets, two two alleged
107:56 – prophets, right? They’re nothing like
107:58 – each other because I took the biography
108:00 – of Muhammad by Iben. So I like to go to
108:02 – the sources, the most recognized and
108:04 – renowned sources in the Islamic world.
108:06 – So again, not Tommy Robinson’s opinion.
108:09 – This is not my story. This is the
108:11 – Islamic scholars of history, the best
108:13 – ones there are, of their life of
108:16 – Muhammad. So I started reading life
108:17 – Muhammad and I read oh the Jewish tribes
108:20 – surrender and he and this is why it’s
108:22 – important so people understand how
108:23 – important scripture is. Do you remember
108:25 – the peshwar school attacks
108:26 – >> I don’t know
108:27 – >> in Pakistan so the Taliban or al-Qaeda
108:30 – one of the two they attacked a school
108:32 – and there was outrage about it but what
108:34 – they did when they attacked school is
108:35 – they pulled the pants down of all the
108:36 – kids and anyone who started puberty was
108:38 – killed and beheaded and anyone who
108:40 – hadn’t was sacrificed as as war booty.
108:42 – Yeah. Well that’s exactly what Muhammad
108:44 – did. This is why scripture is important.
108:45 – So the Jewish tribes surrender. Now when
108:47 – they surrender, Muhammad tortures
108:49 – Canana, he’s the leader of Jewish tribe,
108:51 – setting fire to his stomach to rob his
108:52 – gold. Sort of prophet is this? I’m
108:55 – thinking, what sort of man is this?
108:57 – Jesus says, “Turn the other cheek.”
108:59 – Muhammad’s torturing and burning people
109:00 – and robbing them. Yeah. So he’s robbing
109:02 – them and then after robbing them, he
109:03 – takes that that night Sophia. So anyone
109:06 – any Muslims and when I have this
109:08 – conversation with Muslims, they don’t
109:09 – even know about this. Half of them.
109:10 – Yeah. I said he took the man’s wife that
109:13 – night and married her. Now, here’s the
109:14 – two different world views. I see that as
109:16 – raping the man’s wife that night. Other
109:18 – Muslims have said, “Well, no, he saved
109:20 – her from a life of slavery from all the
109:21 – other men raping her cuz he took her. He
109:23 – was actually really good cuz he saved
109:25 – her.” It’s like, “What?” But anyway, he
109:27 – beheads these people. He does this. And
109:29 – I started going through his life and he
109:30 – walks past another Muslim at another
109:32 – point and this is all in scripture and
109:33 – he says, “Have you droed her?” He’s on
109:35 – about another slave. Said, “No, give
109:36 – her.” So then I started understanding
109:39 – and I started finding verses in here.
109:41 – There’s four that say outside of the
109:43 – four wives, what Muhammad tells you is
109:45 – you can take non-Muslim women as sexual
109:47 – slaves. Yeah. And you’re blame. One of
109:49 – the verses says you’re actually
109:50 – blameless. So I think well Telford all
109:53 – these towns and cities are they taking
109:55 – non-Muslim sexual slaves? Now this is
109:57 – not confusing. Boo Haram’s leader when
110:00 – they took the girls in Nigeria come out
110:01 – and said Muhammad has commanded us to do
110:02 – this. Well, he has. Read the scripture.
110:04 – Yeah. Al Qaeda, ISIS, what did they do
110:07 – to the Yazidi? This is not made up.
110:10 – There’s not 30, 40 different terrorist
110:12 – groups all singing off the same mchi
110:14 – here. Yeah, this is a problem. And
110:16 – again, it’s great that the majority of
110:18 – Muslims don’t read this and take it
110:20 – literally. That’s great.
110:22 – >> But the problem’s coming from this. And
110:24 – I tried to have this conversation with
110:25 – Pierce Morgan. We got on to him. I tried
110:26 – to have this I tried to have this
110:28 – conversation. So what I done as I as I
110:30 – learned and learned more, I then learned
110:32 – about Islam. I learned about Muhammad. I
110:34 – think everyone I think we need to
110:35 – understand who Muhammad was. Yeah. If
110:36 – we’ve got 4 million British Muslims now
110:38 – who think Muhammad was perfect and
110:40 – Muhammad married a six-year-old girl and
110:42 – he when she was nine, we’re going to
110:44 – have a problem. If Muhammad beheaded and
110:46 – took sexual slaves, we’re going to have
110:48 – a problem. If Muhammad taught all this
110:50 – it in the Quran, 7% of mine camp is due
110:53 – hatred. 7% 11% of that book.
110:56 – >> Mine camp’s book mine camp is banned.
110:59 – This isn’t banned. This is taught across
111:00 – the whole country. Now, you’re not even
111:02 – allowed to have this conversation. And
111:03 – the Labor You are we’re having this
111:05 – >> conver we’re having it but Labour
111:06 – government want to bring in Islamophobia
111:07 – laws would prevent us even having this
111:09 – conversation.
111:10 – >> Y and you say you allowed it.
111:13 – >> We’ve we’ve we’ve come a long way.
111:15 – >> You are now this is fair. Look and I
111:18 – this is why I wanted to to ask you about
111:19 – this Tommy because u I I I don’t know
111:22 – exactly what I think about it. I just
111:24 – want to hear your opinion because you’ve
111:26 – been talking about this for a very long
111:27 – time and I think you have been I was
111:31 – going to say demonized and I think it’s
111:32 – probably the correct term you have been
111:33 – demonized for talking about it but I
111:36 – also think as the nature of what has
111:38 – been happening in this country is coming
111:39 – out that I know just speaking to lots of
111:43 – people these are people who who are not
111:45 – going to be on the streets in a riot
111:46 – these are people who sitting in TV
111:48 – studios and they’re doing you know
111:51 – comedy and they’re doing journalism and
111:53 – they’re doing politics and none of them
111:54 – will ever say anything publicly, but
111:56 – there are a lot of people now who are
111:58 – going, you know what, Tommy’s Tommy’s
112:00 – been saying a lot of things that have
112:01 – been proven correct. So, that’s just
112:03 – that’s just where we’re at. People can
112:05 – pretend that’s not happening. That is
112:07 – what’s happening. Right? But what I’m
112:09 – trying to understand is what it is that
112:10 – you’re saying because one of the things
112:13 – that I don’t understand, genuinely don’t
112:15 – understand is where we go from here,
112:18 – right? What is it that you think we
112:21 – ought to do? Because what you’re saying,
112:22 – correct me if any of this is not your
112:24 – view, right? What you’re really saying
112:26 – is Islamic doctrine is divisive and
112:30 – hateful uh towards non-Muslims and it is
112:34 – about domination, right?
112:36 – >> And it’s incompatible with Western
112:38 – freedom and democracy
112:38 – >> and it’s incompatible with Western
112:39 – freedom and democracy, which is where I
112:42 – think a lot of people’s concern with
112:44 – that message is for the simple reason of
112:47 – like what do we do?
112:48 – >> That’s the point.
112:49 – >> Is that a fair question? If we accept
112:50 – this, if you accept we’re right, what
112:53 – the hell are you going to do? Right?
112:54 – >> Because you got 4 million Muslims here.
112:55 – Yeah.
112:56 – >> So, what are you going to do? And not
112:57 – just got 4 million Muslims, but you’ve
112:58 – got Saudi and Qatar own half the capital
113:00 – city. The money is embedded in the
113:02 – nation. Qatar has spent three quarter of
113:04 – a billion pound. Qatar that houses
113:05 – Hamas. Qatar have spent three quarters
113:07 – of a billion pound radicalizing Muslims
113:09 – across Europe. They’ve messed up the
113:10 – whole of France.
113:11 – >> To be fair, Tommy, Qatar and Saudi are
113:13 – two very different states. They are cuz
113:15 – Saudi actually Saudi under under the new
113:18 – king are actually coming quite
113:19 – progressive and actually trying to deal
113:20 – with some of these reform. So this UAE
113:23 – >> this is part this is another part of the
113:25 – discussion which is really I think
113:27 – really important and and you keep saying
113:28 – that and I think it’s important to
113:29 – emphasize I I’ve come back from
113:31 – Beakistan a couple of couple of months
113:33 – ago and I grew up in Beakistan.
113:34 – >> Okay.
113:35 – >> Soviet Muslim country, right?
113:37 – >> They don’t have a problem with this.
113:39 – >> They don’t have grooming gangs. They
113:40 – don’t have extremists. The extremists
113:42 – they have all leave because they make
113:44 – life intolerable for them. Right? UAE,
113:47 – Saudi Arabia, a lot of Muslim countries
113:49 – are actually much better at dealing with
113:50 – Islamic extremism than we are. Right?
113:52 – >> There’s a reason for that as well.
113:54 – There’s a reason for so UAE, Saudi, they
113:57 – ban all these extremist groups. Muslim
113:59 – Brotherhood not allowed to operate. We
114:00 – actually give home to these groups
114:03 – because it supported British foreign
114:04 – policy with the with the war in
114:06 – Afghanistan with the Soviet. We wanted a
114:09 – major.
114:10 – >> We funded
114:12 – The Americans did
114:12 – >> the Americans and us. We gave home to
114:15 – their leaders in Europe. We allowed them
114:17 – to grow, foster, and all of a sudden
114:20 – Boris Johnson put it on here.
114:22 – >> This is Boris Johnson. Remember what?
114:24 – This is Boris Johnson before 77. Yeah.
114:26 – Remember what it says in the Holy Quran.
114:28 – Slay the unbelievers wherever you can
114:29 – find them. We will perform jihad against
114:31 – the kafar the unbelievers. That was in
114:33 – Boris Johnson’s book 72 virgins. So he
114:35 – knows what Islam is, right?
114:37 – >> But then when he comes in power, he
114:38 – totally pretends he doesn’t. He fully
114:40 – gets it. Yeah. And and why did he do
114:42 – that? So there’s many that understand it
114:44 – and Boris Johnson’s one of them. Yeah.
114:46 – But he’s a coward and that’s and he took
114:48 – a different line. So when we say what
114:50 – are we going to do and most of these
114:51 – countries come down hard but we didn’t.
114:53 – We give home the Muslim Brotherhood got
114:55 – offices in our capital. It’s like they
114:57 – wouldn’t be allowed to operate in the
114:58 – UAE or Saudi Arabia. No.
114:59 – >> Now Saudi Saudi Arabia understand that
115:01 – you can’t give any homage to Hezbollah
115:03 – Hamas these terrorist groups and that
115:06 – look at what’s happened in Iran. But I
115:07 – think most people in our country need to
115:08 – understand
115:10 – how quickly a country can change. Look
115:12 – what happened to Iran under the
115:14 – Ayatollah. Look at the Islamic
115:15 – Revolution. They went from freedom
115:17 – loving liberal
115:18 – >> women walking around miniskirts
115:20 – >> to to and I remember there’s videos of
115:22 – them laughing in halls when they say
115:24 – women will have to wear a hijab. You now
115:26 – you get killed if you don’t. Yeah. And
115:27 – and that happened quickly.
115:28 – >> So what so the question always is
115:31 – >> what do we do?
115:32 – >> What do we do? Because because as you
115:34 – say, there are lots of Muslims in this
115:35 – country who are great. Like the
115:37 – stereotypical grooming gang perpetrator
115:40 – is like a taxi driver, right? I’ve said
115:42 – this before. The taxi driver that drives
115:44 – my wife and son around when they need to
115:46 – go somewhere is an Afghan man. I would
115:49 – trust no one more than him to take care
115:51 – of my wife and son cuz they’re really
115:52 – good people, middle-class family,
115:54 – wonderful people. Right? So there are
115:56 – millions of Muslims in this country
115:58 – actually who are not in any way a threat
116:00 – or a problem. Right? Is that fair?
116:02 – >> That’s fair. But there’s millions that
116:04 – are. Here’s the problem.
116:04 – >> I don’t know. Well, you think there’s
116:05 – millions of them.
116:06 – >> 23% want Sharia law in the country. It’s
116:08 – well over a million that are a problem.
116:09 – They need to leave.
116:11 – >> Okay. I would say how much of this is
116:13 – culture? Like we know for instance with
116:15 – the grooming gangs, they come the vast
116:17 – majority of them come from a very
116:19 – specific region in Pakistan and Kashmir.
116:22 – So how much of that is a cultural issue
116:25 – and how much of that is Islam? Because
116:27 – we also need to separate that.
116:28 – >> Well, there’s lots of Sikhs in this
116:29 – country that come from Kashmir. They’re
116:31 – not raping kids.
116:32 – >> But but there’s also Omanis and Saudis
116:34 – in this country are not raping kids.
116:35 – >> No, they’re not. But then if you look at
116:37 – the gangs and I’ve done the demographics
116:38 – of the gangs, Somali,
116:41 – Afghani, Iraqi. Yes, the vast majority
116:43 – of Pakistani. Yeah. The vast majority
116:45 – because the vast majority of Muslims in
116:46 – the UK are Pakistani.
116:47 – >> That’s it. Now, if we look at it’s
116:49 – Moroccans who are doing it in Holland.
116:50 – There was a film called Lover Boy
116:52 – created in 2007 and our pathetic country
116:54 – didn’t allow it to be played in our
116:56 – schools. They clamped down because it
116:57 – was racist. Yeah. Now, that film was an
116:59 – educational film to be played to
117:00 – children to educate them on the lover
117:02 – boy techniques, grooming, right? 2007,
117:05 – how many kids could have been saved? But
117:06 – because of racism and if we just rewind
117:08 – a little bit, just to make one
117:09 – clarification, when I set up the English
117:11 – Defense League as a street protest
117:13 – movement on the street, what would you
117:14 – want? Cuz we had a lesbian and gay
117:16 – division, we had a Jewish division, we
117:17 – had a Hindu division, we made it very
117:19 – clear that of who we were and what our
117:22 – mission statement was. Do you know the
117:23 – Scotland Yard have a metropolitan um
117:26 – domestic extremism unit and the head of
117:28 – that unit come out and made a statement
117:30 – saying the English fence league not far
117:31 – right. So although everyone now believes
117:33 – the English fence league was a farright
117:34 – movement that’s cuz the media told you
117:36 – 10,000 times it was far right so it
117:37 – becomes far right. Same as me.
117:39 – >> Yeah.
117:39 – >> But it wasn’t. Yeah. There were problems
117:41 – with it. It attracted the brave the
117:42 – brave and the strange and and the
117:44 – dangerous at times. But fast forward to
117:46 – where we are. What do we do if you
117:47 – accept this problem and that’s this
117:49 – where the government just buried the
117:50 – head. And what do we do? Well, you need
117:52 – to start addressing it. You really need
117:54 – to address it. And what we’re seeing
117:55 – now, the swing across the whole of
117:56 – Europe, I’ve been saying it for years.
117:57 – When this when it when the cat’s out of
117:59 – the bag, which it is now, the bubbles
118:01 – burst, the dams broke. Yeah. The
118:03 – country’s awake. Everyone can see it.
118:05 – It’s not this ain’t going away. Yeah.
118:07 – So, to keep on what Kama tried to do
118:09 – after the riots in after Southport,
118:12 – which again people talk about, you know,
118:14 – like you said, there was a worry about
118:15 – me because there’s an element of
118:16 – violence at times. That’s just me
118:18 – defending myself. If you listen to my
118:20 – message after Lee Wiggby’s attack, after
118:22 – Lee Wigby beheaded someone, I stood to
118:24 – 10,000 English Defense League supporters
118:26 – in Newcastle. My speech said there’s 600
118:29 – Muslims serving in the British Armed
118:30 – Forces. They’re doing a hell of a lot
118:31 – more for this country than we are. Yeah.
118:33 – If you abuse a Muslim woman walking down
118:34 – the street, you’re a coward. Smash up a
118:36 – mosque, you’re a [  ] [  ] Yeah.
118:38 – So, my message has always been this.
118:40 – Yeah. Now, that doesn’t excuse that
118:41 – there’s elements of there’s been
118:43 – problems because there’s a level of
118:45 – aggression and anger in this country
118:46 – which has been simmered and underneath
118:48 – and boiling for decades and at times
118:51 – it’s come up. So, how do you do that?
118:53 – You need to harness it and channel it.
118:54 – When the riots went in Southport, I made
118:56 – it very clear. I made videos and the
118:58 – reason why I made videos cuz I was
118:59 – worried for those young men. Yeah. Cuz I
119:01 – understand their anger cuz 20 years ago
119:04 – I put on the baclava. Yeah. I run
119:05 – through the streets of Luton. So, I get
119:07 – what you’re doing. But there’s a better
119:09 – way than that. Yeah. which is what
119:10 – >> which is I remember I remember making a
119:13 – video saying where are the men get those
119:14 – kids masks off their faces cuz they’re
119:16 – all kids when I was watching the trouble
119:17 – going on they’re just young kids they’re
119:18 – going to ruin their whole lives they’re
119:20 – going to get put in jail and they’re
119:21 – angry I believe they are justifiably
119:24 – angry that’s what I believe
119:26 – >> that level of anger if we look at where
119:28 – the protests were is it or Harley
119:31 – one of them a Muslim man in the hotel
119:35 – left the hotel and stabbed a pensioner
119:37 – to death for Gaza yeah I don’t even know
119:39 – if people know about this. In a
119:40 – terrorist attack,
119:42 – >> he was in the hotel. There were trouble
119:44 – outside that hotel during the riots. Of
119:45 – course there was. There was trouble
119:47 – outside the hotel in Tanworth during the
119:48 – riots cuz Muhammad left the hotel and
119:49 – raped an English woman who was walking
119:51 – home. Of course there was. In the last
119:52 – There’s been eight Muslim migrants in
119:54 – hotels who have women. There’s been 25
119:57 – sexually assaults against kids from
119:59 – migrants in hotels. This week there’s
120:01 – been two 12-year-old two men Afghanis.
120:04 – There’s been the attack in Warikshire.
120:05 – There’s been the sexual assault in Epin.
120:07 – And I challenge anyone to do this. Some
120:08 – of those cases we have to say for your
120:11 – benefit. Allegedly,
120:13 – >> I wouldn’t like you to go to prison for
120:15 – something you said on here. Just we for
120:17 – people who don’t understand British liel
120:19 – law, you have to say that until
120:21 – someone’s been
120:21 – >> until they’ve been proven guilty. Yeah.
120:22 – >> Right. But even there’s been a even do
120:25 – you know Afghan um they put Libyan
120:27 – forces in a military base. They men
120:32 – through men. Yeah. Now all so all this
120:34 – is going on, right? We know it’s going
120:37 – on. Everyone who lives in these towns
120:38 – and cities knows going the difference is
120:39 – this used to be confined to Luton,
120:41 – >> right?
120:41 – >> And towns like Luton. Yeah. Not anymore.
120:43 – >> It’s in your village.
120:44 – >> So So just I there’s a lot of of the
120:47 – stuff you you you’ve just mentioned
120:49 – there that we’ve talked about adnauseium
120:50 – on the show a lot. Right. Uh as you
120:53 – know, I’m first generation immigrant
120:54 – myself. I think illegal immigration is
120:56 – completely unacceptable and just
120:58 – shouldn’t be happening. There shouldn’t
120:59 – be boats coming over the channel. They
121:00 – should be turned around and taken back
121:02 – to France. Like none of this should be
121:03 – happening. We shouldn’t be putting
121:05 – people up in hotels at the taxpayers’s
121:07 – expense. We should be if you want to
121:09 – have asylum, you process them outside of
121:11 – the country.
121:11 – >> They could stop that like that.
121:12 – >> Of course they could. And I I think it’s
121:14 – a balls problem. It’s not we don’t know
121:15 – how to do it. It’s a we don’t have the
121:17 – balls to do it. Right.
121:18 – >> No, they will have the balls when when
121:20 – they see the public opinion.
121:21 – >> Exactly.
121:23 – But what I’m asking you is, for example,
121:25 – you mentioned 23% of Muslims in this
121:26 – country want Sharia law and you said
121:28 – they need to go. Right. So what are you
121:29 – saying? If someone believes in Sharia
121:32 – law, we have to deport them. If someone
121:34 – wants to overthrow the democracy of this
121:35 – nation and replace it with a violent
121:37 – ideology, um, we need to deal with it.
121:40 – And most of these people, say for
121:42 – example, there’s 40,000 British Muslims
121:43 – or Muslims on the terrorist watch list.
121:45 – 40,000. Yeah.
121:47 – >> Out of that 40,000, I think 50% of them
121:48 – hold Jew nationality and they got to go.
121:50 – >> Why are we following them?
121:52 – >> There’s 3,000 of that 40,000 who are
121:54 – monitored 24 hours a day, 7 days a week
121:56 – at a cost of 9 billion pound a year. Now
121:58 – as the demographic changes like as as
122:01 – the demographic changes in this country
122:03 – we could deal with this these problems
122:06 – when it was 1 or 2% Muslim population.
122:08 – Yeah. If we get forward to where we’re
122:09 – at now 6 7% and we look at the projected
122:12 – growth forecast of the Islamic
122:13 – community. When we get to 25% for say
122:15 – for example well that 40,000 is going to
122:17 – double or treble. That’s an army. Yeah
122:20 – that’s a problem. How do we afford it?
122:22 – Say Pakistani Muslims make up 3% of the
122:24 – British population.
122:25 – They’re responsible for 33% of child
122:27 – defects. Do you know how much that
122:29 – costs?
122:29 – >> Due to cousin marriage.
122:30 – >> Due to cousin marriage. 76% of Muslims
122:32 – in Bradford, Pakistani Muslims married
122:33 – their cousin. How much is that costing?
122:35 – Why are we tolerating this nonsense?
122:37 – Because Muhammad married his cousin. We
122:38 – don’t care what Muhammad done 1400 years
122:40 – ago. You’re in Britain. Sort it out.
122:41 – We’re not paying for it anymore. Yeah.
122:43 – Well, our country is struggling. Our
122:44 – people are struggling. Our own people on
122:46 – the streets. They’re homeless. They’re
122:48 – hungry. They can’t heat their homes. And
122:50 – whilst this is all going on, you you’re
122:52 – spending how much on the hotels of who?
122:54 – men who are culturally impossible to
122:56 – integrate or assimilate into this
122:57 – country and that’s just and that’s not
122:59 – being and you know what’s mad here which
123:01 – I think needs to come out is Abu Lima
123:04 – Abu Lima sorry Abu I’m going to talk
123:06 – about you Abu Lima was on a documentary
123:08 – called the jihadi next door yeah um he’s
123:10 – one of the country’s most biggest jahi
123:12 – terrorists after the abi attack in
123:15 – Manchester I started looking at
123:16 – Manchester and I saw the Muslim
123:18 – population went from 25,000 to 50,000 in
123:20 – 10 years the next 10 years it went from
123:21 – 50,000 to 100,000 what’s going to
123:24 – happened 10 years later another 10 years
123:26 – Manchester that’s the reality of it
123:27 – you’re we are walking into a ticking
123:29 – timeline and no one’s addressing it no
123:31 – one’s talking about Nigel Farage even
123:32 – said I’m not bothered about demographic
123:33 – change you need to be mate yeah you need
123:35 – to be because as these problems progress
123:37 – and they get bigger and bigger and
123:38 – bigger how do we deal with it but anyway
123:40 – so I’m messaging him I get a message
123:42 – just for going jail when I was arrested
123:44 – on terrorism charges which I’ve got a
123:45 – court case coming up for and he messages
123:48 – saying Tommy uh been watching what’s
123:49 – going on with you do you want to know
123:51 – what’s happening I said who’s that he
123:53 – goes Abu Abu Lima, do you remember me?
123:54 – You come to my house. So after the
123:56 – terrorist attack in with Salmon Abi, I
123:58 – looked up the country’s most feared
123:59 – terrorists or the biggest jihadists and
124:01 – I thought, right, where are they? So I
124:02 – went to Abu Haleimma’s house in
124:04 – Northampton. He’s four doors up from a
124:05 – school. So if he wants to get a knife,
124:08 – bear in mind what they’ve just done. If
124:10 – he wants to, no one’s stopping him. He’s
124:11 – next door to the school. Who’s whose
124:13 – kids are in that school? There are not
124:14 – Amber Rudds at the time. Was not Amber
124:16 – Herd or Amber. Home secretary. Sorry.
124:19 – >> Definitely not Amber.
124:20 – >> No, she she was home secretary. Her kids
124:22 – ain’t in that school. Ours are. Yeah. So
124:24 – I went to his school. Please come and um
124:26 – so he said, “Do you remember you come to
124:27 – my you come to my house, Tommy?”
124:29 – >> So I replied saying, “You still a little
124:31 – jihadi, are you?” And he said, “No, I’m
124:32 – not, Tommy.” Yeah. And it surprised me.
124:34 – I said, “What do you mean you’re not?”
124:36 – He said, “I’m still a Muslim. I don’t
124:37 – believe any of that madness anymore.”
124:39 – And I went, “Okay.” He goes, “What
124:41 – they’re going to do with you now under
124:42 – terrorism legislation is what they done
124:43 – with all of us. So we’ve all been
124:45 – silenced. We’re not allowed to talk.
124:46 – We’re not allowed to do this.” Blah,
124:47 – blah, blah. So I’m going back and forth
124:48 – with him in this conversation trying to
124:49 – get a sit down with him like this so the
124:51 – public can hear this conversation. He
124:52 – said you know the biggest threat to
124:53 – Britain’s Tommy. I said what? He said
124:55 – the boat people. He’s the country’s
124:57 – biggest jihadist. He’s telling me the
124:58 – boat people. He said what’s happening to
125:00 – British people’s houses? What’s
125:01 – happening to the British people born
125:02 – here? So I think so many people from
125:04 – immigrant background and even Islamic
125:06 – background are are looking at what’s
125:08 – going on going what the hell is going
125:09 – on? What the hell is going on?
125:11 – Everyone’s too scared to talk about and
125:13 – the government kama. So when the riots
125:15 – happened, what as soon as they mentioned
125:17 – English fence league, bearing in mind I
125:19 – left English fencing in 2015. It’s been
125:21 – redundant since then. There’s no English
125:22 – fence. I saw I saw Sadique Khan talking
125:24 – about it this week. It’s like, mate,
125:25 – it’s been gone a decade. What are you
125:27 – talking about? You’re trying to dig up
125:29 – this old ghost, right? And you dig it up
125:31 – for your own political benefit. And the
125:33 – reason being that rather than Kama and
125:34 – Labor government say people are angry in
125:37 – every town and city, which is is it
125:38 – Friday today? No,
125:39 – >> Thursday.
125:40 – >> Thursday. So tomorrow there’s I know
125:41 – there’s 14 protests in different cities.
125:43 – Yeah, it’s it it’s coming. Okay, things
125:46 – are this problem’s not going away for
125:48 – the governments. So, as this is going
125:50 – on, Karma rather than say the public are
125:53 – angry, far right, English Defense
125:55 – League, everyone’s a racist and not just
125:57 – that. What we’re going to do is we’re
125:58 – going to get to the courts and we’re
125:59 – going to scare the hell out of you. And
126:00 – they thought it would work and it didn’t
126:02 – work, did it? Because people are coming
126:04 – back. So, when people say about me and
126:06 – my element, I have held three huge
126:08 – rallies now called United Kingdom. I
126:10 – learned a lot. leading English fence
126:12 – league held 80 national demonstrations.
126:14 – I learn when there’s problems. I’ll be
126:16 – honest, there’s demonstrations going on
126:17 – this Friday night. I don’t think that’s
126:19 – a good idea. I wouldn’t organize
126:20 – demonstration on Friday night. Yeah.
126:22 – You’re going to get people drinking.
126:23 – You’re going to get people when it turns
126:25 – dark. If you look at all the
126:26 – demonstrations we organize, they’re
126:28 – early. They’re away from pubs and we
126:30 – make sure it’s over at an early time.
126:31 – >> Mhm.
126:32 – >> To to stop these elements. And the
126:34 – reason being the government want that.
126:36 – They want you wearing a mask. Take off
126:38 – your mask. Don’t don’t wear a balaclava
126:41 – because what you do by doing that if you
126:42 – allow it which are we don’t allow if you
126:45 – allow that you’re allowing infiltration
126:47 – when those riots happened last Southport
126:49 – if you look at the Sunderland riot where
126:52 – they burnt the police station is 10 men
126:54 – wearing fully black that’s the I’m
126:56 – telling you look up special
126:58 – demonstration squad the government have
127:00 – squads police squads we’ve seen it on
127:02 – January 6th in America the FBI they have
127:05 – squads which infiltrate legitimate
127:06 – protest if we look and and and this may
127:09 – sound like a conspiracy theory 10 years
127:11 – ago. I watched it with the English
127:13 – Defense League. I know how they operate.
127:15 – I watched what they done. They provoke
127:17 – trouble. They have the media waiting to
127:19 – take pictures. What did they just do
127:20 – last week in um in Epin? They bust in
127:24 – the police brought in protesters to
127:27 – provoke reaction to then label the
127:29 – innocent families and scared families
127:31 – who want to protect their daughters as
127:32 – faright thugs. I know what they do. So,
127:35 – we made it impossible in our meetings
127:36 – with the police. I come back after being
127:39 – I was censored. I was deleted. I was
127:41 – invisible for five years. Elon Musk 2023
127:46 – four gives me back my social media. I
127:49 – come back to the UK. I was exiled pretty
127:52 – much. I was wasn’t in a good place. I’d
127:54 – obviously made this film that I’ve
127:56 – recently went to jail for. I was too
127:58 – scared to release it. I didn’t want to
127:59 – go to prison. I come back to the UK and
128:01 – we start organizing rallies. And our
128:03 – rallies under this banner, United the
128:05 – Kingdom is about uniting Britain. And
128:07 – it’s about uniting. Do you know do you
128:08 – know what’s sad which is worrying
128:10 – situation which we should be worried
128:11 – about
128:12 – >> is as this progresses as in terrorism
128:15 – attacks
128:17 – there’s a problem coming from a section
128:19 – of immigration into the country. That’s
128:21 – my that’s my view. Yeah. And it’s
128:22 – Islamic immigration. Yeah. What’s
128:24 – happening now is there’s a rise in
128:26 – ethnationalism. There’s a rise in anti
128:28 – anti-immigrant immigrant Yeah.
128:31 – sentiment. There’s a rise in these
128:33 – groups that are growing. And there’s a
128:36 – rise in people who don’t understand or
128:38 – are just blaming everyone else. So you
128:40 – have so our our movement is saying no
128:43 – most migrants come to this country and
128:44 – they love embrace. My mother one of them
128:46 – they love embrace and celebrate it.
128:48 – Yeah. We want to bring them people
128:49 – together under one banner and we want to
128:51 – do it in a joyful manner and a and a
128:52 – celebrationary manner where we focus on
128:54 – our identity as British people not a
128:57 – white identity as British people.
128:59 – Everyone who wants to be part under that
129:00 – banner come along. and we’ve held free
129:02 – rallies and our the last one I done was
129:04 – Trafalga July 27th 100,000 people not
129:07 – one arrest in each of these events and
129:09 – do you know how our relationships
129:10 – changed with the police it’s insane
129:12 – really any patriotic rally was met with
129:15 – violence with the police up until 18
129:18 – months ago yeah when I had my first sit
129:21 – down with the police and unfortunately
129:22 – again I’ve learned you have to deal with
129:26 – the police and the government in a
129:27 – certain way when I sat down for my first
129:29 – meeting with the police I said I’m going
129:30 – to tell you what what we we’re going to
129:31 – do. Yeah, we are. I could if I wanted
129:34 – to, lads, bearing in mind these Hamas
129:36 – rallies. If I want to, I can organize a
129:38 – protest on Tower Bridge in London on the
129:41 – same day and same time as they do theirs
129:43 – and we can have a confrontation with the
129:45 – Hamas uh radicals. Yeah, we don’t want
129:48 – to. Yeah. What we want is a family event
129:51 – in Parliament, outside Parliament with
129:54 – music, celebration. So, let us do what
129:56 – we want. Stay the hell away. We will
129:58 – police ourselves. We will not allow face
130:00 – coverings. does not allow us alcohol. We
130:02 – will monitor our own supporters and if
130:03 – there’s a problem with our supporters,
130:04 – tell us and we’ll deal with them. Yeah.
130:06 – Because you coming in mob banded with
130:08 – crash helmets and right gear, just don’t
130:10 – wear right gear. Stay away. We’ll we’ll
130:12 – work with you in any way. If if if
130:14 – Antifa and left leftwing extremists are
130:16 – here, we’ll change our don our location
130:19 – and we’ll start here. We just want to
130:20 – have a peaceful day. And that worked
130:22 – with the police. And in the end, we’re
130:24 – clapping the police because and and to
130:26 – any of the people organizing
130:27 – demonstrations now at hotels, you have
130:28 – to leaz with the police because if you
130:30 – don’t leers with the police, then you’ll
130:31 – see conditions coming in where you can’t
130:34 – go down this road, can’t go down that
130:35 – road. And when those conditions come in,
130:37 – you’ll then get riot police blocking the
130:39 – road. You’ll then have a clash of
130:41 – support of people. It so I’ve learned a
130:44 – lot. I I know how these demonstrations
130:46 – work. I know how to leers and negotiate
130:48 – with the police and even even do you
130:50 – know again it’s a sad state of affairs
130:53 – but the English defense league do you
130:54 – remember they’re opening a a mosque in
130:56 – Luton down center and I went down to the
130:58 – shopping center 2013 and I met with the
131:02 – the the owners of the shopping center
131:04 – and just basically said I’m going to
131:05 – tell you what happens here I went to the
131:07 – bakery um which was Robbiey’s family
131:09 – bakery it’s been there 40 years I went
131:11 – to the Muslim restaurant next door and
131:12 – spoke to the the Turks and said what do
131:14 – you think about the mosque opening in
131:16 – And they said, “We don’t need a mosque
131:17 – here.” First of all, we don’t need And
131:19 – this is the Muslims. They said, “If you
131:20 – put a mosque there, it’s going to be 100
131:21 – men outside our shop.” Yeah.
131:23 – >> So, I went through all this today. I
131:24 – said to the I said to the shopping
131:26 – center,
131:26 – >> “If you open a mosque there, I’m going
131:28 – to shut down the shopping center.
131:30 – >> When the expensely come and demonstrate,
131:32 – it cost 500,000 to a million pounds to
131:34 – police and you will board up your
131:35 – shopping center. That’s what’s going to
131:37 – happen. I’m just letting you know. Yeah,
131:38 – we don’t want to do this. You need to
131:40 – listen to the shops here and what they
131:41 – want.” It worked. They canled the mosque
131:44 – by then. They opened up toilets in
131:46 – Burnley, Burnley or one of the northern
131:48 – towns. And the toilets were a hole in
131:50 – the ground in the shopping center.
131:51 – >> Yeah.
131:51 – >> Like a like a sandy toilet.
131:53 – >> I rang the shopping center said you got
131:54 – two weeks.
131:55 – >> Change the toilet. Now this isn’t good,
131:58 – but at the time I knew what worked. When
132:00 – 364 councils I wrote a letter to, you
132:02 – can Google this. And it was Christmas.
132:04 – And six councils changed the name of
132:07 – Christmas. They took the word Christ out
132:09 – of it and they called it winter
132:10 – illuminations winter festival. So I sent
132:12 – 364 letters off personally to the
132:14 – councils. I said, “I’m I’m warning you
132:16 – as the English Defense League. We’re
132:17 – going to hit your city if you change the
132:19 – name of Christmas if you” and they it
132:21 – all went in the news that we were
132:22 – blackmailing the council. So I said,
132:23 – “Well, I’m just warning them.” Yeah. We
132:25 – don’t want to come to your city, but we
132:26 – will. Now, they all listened. Not one
132:28 – the next year, not one single council
132:30 – took the word Christ out of it. Yeah.
132:32 – And do you know what’s upsetting or
132:33 – what’s and I had meetings with Muslims
132:35 – about this with the English fency.
132:36 – Muslims don’t care if we celebrate
132:38 – Christmas. This is some liberal joke in
132:40 – a council making a decision for
132:42 – community cohesion which doesn’t work
132:44 – for communication. You’re actually
132:46 – causing resentment. So all I learned
132:48 – very quickly that unfortunately when you
132:51 – have a bit of power like the Islamic
132:52 – leaders have you can threaten things and
132:55 – it gets done what you want. But I think
132:57 – we’ve now reached a point Tommy where
133:00 – things are fee to put it mildly.
133:02 – >> Feebal means it if it’s like it’s going
133:05 – to boil over it’s a powder cake. It’s
133:07 – it’s where we are unfortunately. You can
133:10 – admit it or you can’t. So do you think
133:13 – what we do and for people who are
133:15 – concerned about this is that people need
133:18 – to have peaceful demonstrations. There
133:20 – need to be activists. There needs to be
133:22 – people talking about this in a calm and
133:25 – respectful manner. Um totally. I think
133:28 – that again which is what we’re planning
133:30 – on doing September 13th. I think we’re
133:32 – going to have half a million to a
133:34 – million people. I think it’s going to be
133:35 – the biggest patriotic gathering this
133:36 – country’s ever seen. Yeah. And our div
133:39 – our diversity of our crowd and the
133:40 – demographic of our support base is
133:42 – totally changed. It’s mainstream. Yeah.
133:45 – Whereas they had us as a fringe element.
133:47 – They had us. Yeah. And they had control
133:50 – of social media. Remember we were banned
133:51 – from every social media. So they when
133:52 – they had control they could tell
133:53 – everyone who we are. Then now people can
133:55 – see our videos ourselves. They can see
133:56 – what our events are like. They can see
133:58 – what the gathering’s like. I would be
134:00 – I’m worried and I think the government
134:02 – should be worried and the country should
134:03 – be worried about the mood in the nation
134:05 – because the mood in the nation is people
134:06 – had enough. People ain’t going to be
134:08 – silenced anymore. When you when people
134:10 – when you take away the freedom of an of
134:13 – an English man or woman’s children to
134:15 – walk the street, which is what’s
134:16 – happened in Epin, they can’t walk down
134:17 – the street in their school uniform. When
134:19 – you take that away, what do you what do
134:20 – you expect is going to happen? And
134:22 – that’s not that’s mirrored across every
134:23 – town and city at the minute. So if you
134:25 – ask the British public how they’re
134:26 – feeling on safety, they don’t feel safe.
134:28 – And when you and whilst you don’t feel
134:30 – safe, what what Klama should have done
134:32 – after Southport is they should have come
134:34 – out as a government and said, “We’re
134:35 – listening. We understand. We understand
134:37 – the anger, right? Let’s try and work
134:39 – together to to stop this.” But they
134:41 – didn’t do that. They said, “You’re all
134:43 – racist. Shut up.” And and and what
134:45 – that’s led to is where we’re at now, 12
134:47 – months later. You put a load of people
134:48 – in jail. You let criminals out. You
134:49 – locked up patriots. You murdered Peter
134:51 – Lynch. Lucy Conley still.
134:52 – >> Some of them were some of them were
134:54 – racist and there were rights which were
134:56 – unacceptable. Some of them were, but
134:58 – there were also Muslims riding along the
134:59 – street and none of that was on the
135:01 – mainstream media. Kama didn’t mention
135:02 – it. He Kama said, “We’re going to
135:04 – protect you, the Muslim community.” It’s
135:06 – like, “Well, no, no, hold on. It’s our
135:08 – daughters who have been raped in every
135:09 – town city. Why are you going to protect
135:10 – us? It’s our daughters in every town and
135:12 – city who are being ganged, not Muslim
135:14 – girls. There’s no there’s not one. Find
135:15 – me a case, anyone, of a group of
135:18 – non-Muslims raping a Muslim. Find me one
135:20 – case.” Because the fact is there’s
135:22 – hundreds of thousands across this
135:23 – country. And when you even try and talk
135:25 – about or get angry about it, you just
135:26 – need to shut up. You’re all far right.
135:27 – You’re all racist. Well, that doesn’t
135:28 – wash anymore. That’s not going to wash.
135:30 – People have had enough. People aren’t
135:32 – remain silent. But what’s happening now
135:33 – is it’s organic, which is good. I I I I
135:37 – said I was going to go Epin the other
135:38 – week, didn’t I? Wrong wrong move for me.
135:40 – Yeah. Wrong move for the people of Epin
135:42 – because if I went there, it’s all about
135:44 – me. And it gives the government and the
135:46 – council and all the opposition the
135:48 – chance to diminish the the local
135:50 – community’s fears and put them under
135:52 – which is what they done after the riots.
135:54 – They put them under the bracket of
135:55 – farright bracket of Tommy Robinson. They
135:57 – blamed me for the riots. They blamed me.
135:59 – I I was calling for peace, calm, and
136:01 – nonviolence. And they made out that I
136:03 – was the instigator of riots across the
136:05 – country when I wasn’t even here. But um
136:07 – I think that I think that most people
136:08 – are sitting where we’re sitting as in
136:10 – something big is happening here. I when
136:12 – I say the country is prime for
136:14 – revolution, it is the mood of this
136:16 – nation. I’ve just, you know, down the
136:17 – end of year there’s a petrol station um
136:20 – with the Gregs. I had two people come up
136:22 – to me in that Gregs who are talking
136:23 – about September 13th. I the level of
136:26 – feeling this country is and and the
136:29 – emotion and passion and fear that the
136:32 – public are having when I see people I I
136:35 – I’ve remember I’ve gone through this 15
136:36 – years. I’ve gone from being spat at to
136:38 – being punched to being hugged to being
136:39 – embraced to have my hand shaken. And
136:41 – that process is now where the country’s
136:44 – at where they’re going to look when when
136:46 – when the public realize the state of our
136:49 – nation, the safety of their children,
136:51 – the absolute destruction of our culture,
136:54 – our identity, and our future. Yeah. When
136:57 – they realize, they’re going to look at
136:58 – who’s to blame. And they’re going to
137:00 – look to the politicians, and they’re
137:01 – going to look to the journalists.
137:02 – They’re going to look at who lied and
137:04 – they’re going to look at who told the
137:05 – truth. And that’s why even I talk about
137:07 – Katie Hopkins. Katie Hopkins had to flee
137:09 – Britain four years ago. Yeah. She was
137:11 – hated. She now come back. I walk the
137:14 – streets with her. She’s gets a hero’s
137:15 – reception cuz people see that some
137:17 – people and doesn’t mean anyone’s
137:19 – perfect. Same with me. It means I made
137:21 – mistakes. People accept my flaws. Yeah.
137:23 – But we we told the truth. We stood on
137:26 – principle and continued regardless of
137:28 – their threats, their intimidation, their
137:30 – silence. And I don’t blame people who
137:32 – are sitting out there who are scared to
137:33 – talk. You should be scared to talk
137:35 – because we don’t have free speech. We
137:36 – don’t live in How many people do you
137:37 – hear say we live in a free country? No
137:38 – one anymore.
137:39 – >> Everyone knows we don’t.
137:41 – >> They’re locking you up.
137:42 – >> I haven’t heard that phrase for years. I
137:45 – I remember when I came to this country,
137:46 – I was a boy, right? That’s what I
137:48 – thought. That’s what I thought Britain
137:50 – was. That’s what I thought the West was.
137:52 – And people would use that phrase. And in
137:54 – fact, I remember kids would tease me for
137:56 – being Russian, right? And I’d be like,
137:59 – “Shut up.” And they’d be like, “It’s a
138:00 – free country.” No one says it anymore.
138:02 – >> No one.
138:03 – >> No. I’m not to say anyone to say it. You
138:04 – see what you just said. I up until 2009
138:07 – when I started my activism, I thought I
138:08 – lived in a country with free speech and
138:10 – then I realized, well, this country
138:13 – doesn’t exist.
138:14 – >> And and and I’ll give you an example.
138:15 – You know, I was just arrested for this
138:17 – GBH section 18 to do with a gentleman.
138:19 – >> When I was arrested, I was detained and
138:21 – and questioned and arrested for three
138:24 – tweets. One of the tweets I was arrested
138:26 – for was sharing a Daily Mail article.
138:28 – Yeah. Now what they said is they said
138:31 – are you they’re basically trying to say
138:33 – have you got qualifications as
138:34 – mainstream journalism. So I said no and
138:36 – then so my solicitor said well all he’s
138:38 – done is share what the Daily Mail said
138:40 – and and then they said the Daily Mail
138:41 – are protected because recognized media
138:44 – are protected by this law. You’re not.
138:47 – So I was like well I’ve shared something
138:49 – that’s factual from the Daily Mail but
138:51 – you’re going to arrest me for it. And
138:53 – they arrested me for that and also and
138:55 – also sharing a Palestinian flag that
138:57 – said Hamas, Palestine, Islam. And I
139:00 – shared it and just said this, I’ve been
139:02 – arrested for that. We don’t live in a
139:04 – free country. Now, I wouldn’t mind, but
139:06 – they weren’t arresting people calling
139:07 – for jihad. This two-tier level of
139:09 – policing, they’re not arresting. It’s
139:11 – like hate speech laws are not there to
139:13 – prevent hate. They’re there to shut us
139:15 – up. And one level’s being shut up and
139:17 – the other level get amplified
139:19 – opportunity to promote their hate and
139:21 – intolerance. If we had if they want to
139:23 – implement real hate speech laws, this
139:25 – will be banned. The Quran will be banned
139:27 – tomorrow because there’s a hundred
139:28 – verses in here that call for violence.
139:29 – >> Lots of books will be banned. But you
139:31 – can buy mine camp.
139:32 – >> But that’s banned. No. Okay. You can buy
139:33 – Man Camp.
139:33 – >> I thought you going to pull it out
139:34 – there, Tom.
139:35 – >> You can buy my camp. But these free
139:37 – books are banned by Amazon. Yeah. This
139:39 – is just my life story. This is a This is
139:42 – This is not my opinion. This is the
139:44 – Quran. And what this Quran does, do you
139:45 – know the term Islam is a religion of
139:47 – peace?
139:47 – >> Mhm. I have heard that.
139:48 – >> Yes. But no one had ever said it until
139:51 – George W. Bush. We sat for months trying
139:54 – to find historically figures, military,
139:58 – religious, political, that ever said
140:00 – Islam was religion of peace. And all
140:02 – you’ll find is Islamic leaders saying,
140:03 – “No, it’s a war manual. It’s it’s
140:05 – warrior manual.” Yeah. So that lie which
140:08 – was told by George W. Bush is now just
140:10 – repeated as some sort of fact. But these
140:12 – books were all banned by Amazon. But as
140:13 – you just said, you can buy Hitler’s
140:15 – book. So how can you ban? There’s
140:17 – nothing hatred in these. But you’re
140:19 – literally burning books now. And you’re
140:20 – burning books that challenge your your
140:22 – failures again. And what is what is the
140:24 – demographical change to this nation? And
140:26 – what does it look like? So as as any one
140:28 – watching this, okay, 5 6% of the country
140:31 – are from the Islamic background. Look at
140:33 – the mayhem from five 6%. What do you
140:37 – actually think it’s going to be like at
140:38 – 20%. This isn’t fearongering. We’ve got
140:41 – a duty as English men and women to
140:42 – protect this country and to protect our
140:44 – kids. And everyone’s seen what’s
140:45 – happened since October October 7th. It’s
140:47 – accelerated. Well, what are we going to
140:49 – do? Cuz unfortunately, a lot of the
140:50 – groups that were for harmony are
140:52 – actually calling for the obliteration of
140:54 – an entire state of people and and people
140:56 – have seen it now. There’s no smoke
140:58 – smokec screens. People can see the hate
141:00 – and it’s not a minority. It’s
141:02 – mainstreamed. And unfortunately, that
141:04 – mainstream hate is coming from the left
141:06 – and the liberal left along with an
141:08 – Islamist alliance which which we’ve seen
141:10 – this alliance before. We’ve seen it in
141:12 – in Iran. We’ve seen where the communists
141:14 – and the Marxists joined along with the
141:15 – Islamists to overthrow and topple the
141:17 – topple the country and the first thing
141:19 – that the Islamists done is kill them. So
141:21 – we’ve seen it there’s and I just think
141:23 – that you know as a generation of British
141:25 – men are we really scared to talk about
141:28 – this [ __ ] Are we actually going to
141:29 – remain silent and look at our country
141:32 – and see that it there’s a thousand years
141:34 – of Christian history in this country
141:35 – over 1800 years Christianity has been in
141:37 – Britain but a thousand years of England.
141:40 – We’re going to let in 70 years
141:42 – spineless, corrupt, globalist
141:44 – politicians import medieval backward
141:46 – cultures into this country and allow
141:48 – them to grow dominant and superior to
141:50 – us. That’s what we’re seeing. Luton is a
141:53 – blueprint for every town and city. You
141:54 – can ignore it because you think it’s
141:56 – Luton, but it’s your town tomorrow. And
141:58 – the demographical change and the growth
142:00 – in this nation shows that. So, yes, you
142:02 – made the comment earlier about your taxi
142:04 – driver who’s probably a lovely man. I
142:06 – bet a lot of Germans were lovely during
142:08 – the war. I bet loads of them were
142:10 – lovely. It doesn’t stop the dangers of
142:12 – Nazism. What we see with Islam. Yeah.
142:15 – Not Muslims. Again, people don’t
142:17 – understand. So, if I if I criticize the
142:19 – Bible or Jesus, it doesn’t mean I hate
142:21 – Christians, does it? Doesn’t mean I hate
142:23 – every person that follows it. So,
142:24 – separate the two. Muslims are people. If
142:27 – you speak hatred against Muslims, it’s
142:29 – bad. You entice or or encourage violence
142:32 – against Muslims, totally wrong. Your
142:34 – God-given right is to look at this book
142:36 – as an Englishman and say, “What is what
142:38 – does this bring? It’s a book. It’s my
142:40 – right to look at Muhammad’s life and say
142:42 – having sex with children is pretty
142:43 – wrong, though. Yeah. You’re not really a
142:45 – moral compass that we should be
142:47 – following. In fact, we shouldn’t just be
142:48 – following you. You know, my local
142:49 – politician, Gavin Suga, um he was a
142:52 – Labour politician and at the height of
142:53 – the English Defense League. He I’d never
142:55 – met him and there was a chicken shop in
142:56 – Luton and he was in there. So, I walked
142:58 – in and said, “All right, all right,
142:59 – Gavin. Yeah, you held a celebrate
143:01 – Muhammad day at Parliament.” He said,
143:03 – “Yeah.” I said, “What do you know about
143:04 – Muhammad? What do you actually know
143:06 – about him?” He goes, “Well, I know
143:08 – Muslims respect him.” I said, “Okay,
143:10 – well, Nazis respect Hitler.”
143:13 – Celebrate Hitler, should we? What do you
143:15 – know about him? And he’s just looked
143:16 – gobsmacked. You don’t know anything, do
143:19 – you? You don’t know anything about him.
143:21 – Yet here you are pandering. It’s like
143:23 – Jess Phillips basically sitting on her
143:25 – knees in a mosque. It’s mental.
143:28 – The level of absurdity, appeasement,
143:31 – cowardice from those politicians. We’ve
143:33 – got 650 politicians in parliament and
143:35 – not one of them’s ever spoke about Islam
143:36 – since since Churchill and Gladstone. No
143:39 – one in that House of Parliament, bearing
143:41 – in mind the jihad attacks. Think about
143:42 – Manchester, think about 77, think about
143:44 – Lee Riby, we’ve had all these attacks.
143:46 – >> But it’s worse than that, man. It’s
143:48 – worse than that. One of their colleagues
143:50 – was killed by an Islamist. So David
143:52 – Ames, do you remember this?
143:53 – >> Yeah, but the public probably don’t even
143:55 – know who he is
143:56 – >> because all the MPs stood up. Do you
143:58 – remember what they talked about in the
143:59 – House of Commons?
144:00 – >> Probably Islamophobia. No, they talked
144:01 – about online hate.
144:03 – >> Well, we got we got to crack down on
144:05 – their their colleague has just been
144:07 – murdered by
144:08 – >> Somalian jihadist. Will it
144:10 – >> murdered by an Islamist in a in a
144:13 – surgery in a constituency surgery i.e.
144:15 – the thing that they all go and do
144:17 – >> and his family is still trying to fight.
144:19 – They’re still trying his whole family is
144:21 – still trying to fight his daughter. His
144:23 – daughter is still trying to fight
144:24 – against a system that do you know why
144:26 – they can’t have that conversation again.
144:28 – >> I can tell you why. Because I’ve speak
144:29 – to them.
144:32 – They’re all terrified. And by the way,
144:34 – like you said, they’re not wrong.
144:36 – >> They’re not wrong to be terrified.
144:37 – >> The problem is they’re terrified, but
144:39 – we’re not anymore. The public
144:41 – >> I don’t think I don’t think the public
144:42 – is terrified.
144:42 – >> The public are not terrified anymore.
144:43 – >> It’s like you It’s like, oh, you put us
144:45 – in prison. Yeah. Well, that didn’t work,
144:46 – did it, mate? You know what I mean? That
144:48 – doesn’t work. Okay. That doesn’t work.
144:51 – And it doesn’t work because once there’s
144:52 – a reality that the country is at stake,
144:55 – that the entire Christian nation, that
144:57 – the entire population and culture and
144:59 – identity and children’s future is at
145:01 – stake, we don’t care about you putting
145:03 – us in jail. Yeah. Because And I these an
145:06 – argument I had with my ex-wife so many
145:07 – times. Yeah. She’s like, “Just shut up.
145:09 – What about the kids?” I said, “This
145:11 – ain’t about the kids. What about their
145:13 – kids?”
145:13 – >> I mean, it is about the kids.
145:15 – >> Yeah, it is. But what I mean is, she’s
145:16 – like, “Just shut up to make sure our
145:18 – kids have a say.” I said, “Okay, but
145:19 – what about when they have kids?”
145:21 – >> Yeah.
145:21 – >> Yeah. And they’re a minority. I know
145:22 – what it’s like to be a minority in
145:24 – Islam. I’ve seen it my whole life. I
145:25 – know what it’s like. Go ask the
145:26 – Christians in Afghanistan. Go ask the
145:27 – Christians in Iraq. Go ask them in Syria
145:29 – right now. Go and ask the Drews. Go and
145:31 – ask them what’s happening.
145:32 – >> Cuz they’re dead.
145:33 – >> And they’re all dead or getting killed.
145:35 – >> And and the thing to remember about this
145:36 – is uh you know, we say these names, but
145:39 – these victims are real. Like I knew said
145:40 – David Amos. He’s a big West Ham fan. We
145:43 – I I met him a few times at West Ham. He
145:45 – was a lovely man
145:46 – >> and nothing changed after his death.
145:47 – Yeah, he was a fantastic MP and he was a
145:50 – wonderful constituency MP. He was
145:53 – murdered. I remember I was in shock. I
145:54 – didn’t know him that I met him two or
145:55 – three times, but he was a lovely man.
145:57 – Had lunch with him and then I just saw
145:59 – people just his colleagues.
146:01 – >> He gets murdered. We’ve got to stop
146:03 – Tommy Robinson.
146:04 – >> Well, they talk about online hate and
146:06 – I’m just going this is cowardice of the
146:09 – worst sort. Of the worst sort. An
146:11 – innocent man dies who is your friend and
146:13 – colleague and you do nothing. That is an
146:16 – abdication of responsibility. I was I
146:19 – I’ve never actually spoken about this,
146:20 – but it made me feel physically sick. It
146:23 – made me feel physically sick and it
146:24 – actually changed a lot of my opinions
146:27 – cuz I saw firsthand the cowardice cuz
146:30 – it’s very different when you’ve never
146:32 – met, you know, you say names and there’s
146:35 – a part of you that finds it you can
146:37 – empathize but you can’t sympathize cuz
146:39 – you’re not there. But when he was
146:41 – murdered, and bear in mind this was just
146:43 – someone I used to sit with and have the
146:45 – occasional lunch with two or three times
146:46 – and we’d talk about West Ham and he told
146:48 – me about the glory days of you know the
146:50 – 1970s of West Ham and you know Billy
146:53 – Bonds and all these and then I saw like
146:55 – the way they just didn’t even talk about
146:57 – him.
146:58 – >> But you know that feeling you’re feeling
146:59 – Yeah. in every town and city that’s our
147:02 – daughters. Yeah. So these attacks these
147:05 – I’ll explain. There was a Tom Costello.
147:07 – He got the best grades. He went to a
147:08 – private school, got the best grades at
147:10 – Oxford University and he’s a journalist
147:11 – and he done a documentary with me and he
147:13 – come and spent I said come and spend
147:14 – time with me in Luton and we’re at the
147:16 – local estate and we’re at the pub and
147:18 – when you walk anywhere here everyone
147:19 – knows each other so everyone’s hugging
147:20 – embracing and when we sat down he goes I
147:23 – haven’t got this I’ve never had this I
147:24 – said what he goes the community you all
147:25 – know each other everyone loves each
147:27 – other everyone’s hug because I he’s gone
147:29 – private school then he’s gone to
147:30 – university and then he’s gone to a new
147:32 – town he doesn’t know everyone I said so
147:34 – you see what you’ve just seen there Tom
147:35 – he said yeah I said so say when Sarah
147:38 – is raped by migrants. Do you understand
147:41 – how all of us are feeling it?
147:43 – >> Yeah.
147:43 – >> Do you get how we’re all raging about
147:45 – this? Yeah. That so that sense of
147:48 – feeling when we talk about the moral
147:49 – cowardice. Let’s look at Piers Morgan
147:51 – for example. Yeah. Piers Morgan was in
147:53 – charge of Daily Mirror. Are we going to
147:54 – pretend that he didn’t know about
147:55 – grooming gangs? Are we going to pretend
147:57 – the head of Daily Mirror at the height
147:59 – of the grooming scandal? We know Andrew
148:00 – Norfolk knew because he says he knew.
148:02 – Yeah. We know the government knew. We
148:03 – know politicians knew. We know the
148:05 – police knew. Let’s not. Piers Morgan
148:07 – knew. They all knew. And what did they
148:09 – do? They shut us down. They shut down
148:12 – the debate trying to be morally virtue
148:14 – for everyone. Like we’re not like this.
148:16 – It’s like most people now I look at the
148:18 – same people who shut me down now are all
148:21 – trying to be as loud as they can about
148:23 – what happened to the victims. It’s like
148:24 – you knew what was happening. You’re
148:26 – trying to rewrite history here. These
148:28 – people are you’re trying to rewrite
148:29 – history. You knew. Certainly Pierce
148:32 – Morgan, the head of a media outlet,
148:33 – knew. I understand how some people in
148:34 – different backgrounds and living in
148:35 – different towns and cities or villages
148:36 – were not aware but everyone in our towns
148:38 – knew. We all knew. So that that feeling
148:41 – you get there and I’ve had I just so
148:44 – people say I’ve I’ve got to know
148:47 – survivors families. I look at some of
148:49 – them. I look at Sammy Woodhouse and I
148:51 – don’t I don’t Have you had Sammy on?
148:52 – >> Not yet.
148:53 – >> You should get her on cuz I look at her.
148:54 – >> We’ve had no number of survivors
148:56 – >> but I look at her and think how the hell
148:58 – she stayed in Roin. Are you Have you had
149:00 – Raj Mir on
149:02 – >> the Muslim lad from Molden?
149:03 – >> No.
149:03 – >> Oh, mate. He’s like a warrior
149:05 – >> like against the gr Pakistan. He’s like
149:07 – a warrior because I know what it’s like
149:09 – trying to talk about these issues and
149:11 – I’m a man. Yeah. And as you said, I
149:12 – don’t mind a punchup.
149:15 – I’m a man, but I’m not I’m not really up
149:17 – for backing down to them.
149:18 – >> Yeah.
149:18 – >> But I look at some people like that.
149:20 – Sammy Woodhouse, single parent taking on
149:22 – the Robin gangs, still saying live in
149:24 – the same area. The threats she must have
149:26 – faced, the threats her family must have
149:27 – faced. I look at Raj Mia and he’s in the
149:29 – community and he’s exposed all of them.
149:31 – He’s exposed all the corruption in Old
149:33 – Council from the Labour Party and the
149:34 – grooming gangs everything. So I look at
149:36 – these people and think none of them have
149:37 – had any recognition or none of them have
149:39 – had any um support. None of them. None
149:43 – of them. Do you know what they done? So
149:45 – there’s a group called Seek Awareness
149:46 – Society. You should have him on Mohan
149:48 – Singh. Yeah. So they’re a charity. So
149:50 – when I started the English Defense
149:51 – League, we sort of formed a relationship
149:53 – with the SEK community to try and I’d
149:55 – say understand each other. So there was
149:57 – racist attacks against seek schools down
149:59 – in Essics by young white kids showing
150:00 – EDL. I’d go down, they’d ring me and
150:02 – say, “Can you come down? There’s
150:03 – problems with the kids.” So I’d go down
150:05 – to the estate, there’d be 50 kids there.
150:07 – I’d walk over, they’re like, “Tommy
150:08 – Robinson.” I said, “What’s going on with
150:09 – the school?” And I said, “They’re all
150:11 – terrorists.” Said, “No terrorists.
150:13 – They’re the best best immigrants this
150:15 – country’s ever had. Seeks. They’re
150:16 – 88,000.” It’s education. I’m going
150:18 – through it all with them. And then the
150:20 – SE and then I spent time traveling
150:22 – around to seek temples and Hindu temples
150:24 – watching their education program. They
150:26 – do an education. So they get all the
150:27 – girls and all the sisters and they hold
150:29 – a seminar. And they’ve been doing this
150:30 – for decades. Yeah. And they the women
150:33 – sit down and they show them how the
150:34 – grooming gangs operate. And I remember
150:36 – mate I spent a couple of years we were
150:38 – going around and my mate pulled me out
150:40 – after who was filming with us. He said,
150:41 – “What do you think of this?” I said,
150:43 – “This is brilliant for the Sikhs,
150:46 – brilliant for the Hindus. Who’s doing
150:47 – this for us? Who’s educating the white
150:50 – working-class children and women and
150:52 – sisters and mothers on how to stop these
150:54 – gangs? you’re not even allowed to have
150:55 – the conversation. Do you how much
150:56 – criticism seek awareness faced because
150:58 – it was only till when come out a lot
151:00 – changed because then they realized we’re
151:01 – telling the truth. They realized they’re
151:02 – telling the truth. But the seek
151:04 – awareness and these groups were seen as
151:05 – hostile because of um India’s problems.
151:08 – They thought it was just they didn’t
151:09 – like the Islamic community. And then
151:11 – when they when all this grooming come
151:12 – out, the funding went to the Muslim
151:14 – community to taxi companies to report
151:17 – it. And it’s like you’re funding the
151:19 – same pro they were the problem. So I
151:21 – just think the whole thing and and just
151:23 – the emotion you saw I could see there
151:24 – you’re getting upset because it’s
151:26 – someone you know.
151:27 – >> Yeah.
151:28 – >> I knew
151:28 – >> we kn you knew. Yeah. We know these
151:31 – girls.
151:32 – >> Yeah.
151:32 – >> So that level of that level of emotion
151:35 – I’d say it’s what drives me half the
151:37 – time cuz I think I think No, no. Do you
151:39 – know these girls? I’ve done a five-part
151:41 – series called The Brim. We’re on to
151:43 – episode six. I’d love to be able to
151:44 – finish it without all these police
151:45 – monsters. We’re on to episode six. That
151:47 – five-part series, if anyone wants to
151:48 – watch it, go to trfilms.co.uk. UK, we
151:51 – investigate the gangs. When we
151:52 – investigate the gangs, I sit down with
151:54 – 12 to 18 survivors and we heard their
151:56 – story and there’s a team behind me. So I
151:58 – get the credit of the documentary, but
151:59 – there’s a team of volunteers who we’ve
152:01 – done a police style investigation. As we
152:03 – started investigating, I’d sit down with
152:04 – a survivor. I interviewed for 3 hours, 4
152:07 – hours, 5 hours. The team would we’d then
152:09 – put it into a database and we’ we got
152:11 – 254 names. And just so you just so
152:14 – people haven’t listened to my stories,
152:15 – you need to watch these films, you need
152:17 – to understand the scale of the problem.
152:18 – Telford has a 1.7% Muslim population.
152:21 – There’s none there. That’s why we picked
152:23 – that city. The police identified a
152:25 – thousand victims in Telford. Yeah. Of
152:27 – the Muslim gangs. Five of them are dead,
152:29 – murdered. Yeah. Five out of a thousand.
152:32 – We sat down with 12 to 18. Out of those
152:35 – 12 to8, we identified 254 names of
152:37 – rapists. The police investigation
152:39 – identified 200 rapists. Yeah. They
152:42 – prosecuted 11. So when you see the the
152:43 – trials going on, they’re just like a
152:46 – little symbol. the police going, “Yeah,
152:47 – we stopped them in Telford, prosecuted
152:49 – 11. What about the other 189 that raped?
152:51 – They’re not getting prosecuted.” Now,
152:53 – take the demographics of the Muslim
152:54 – community for Telford. Get rid of the
152:56 – under 16s and get rid of the over 70.
152:58 – So, let’s get the men that fit the age
152:59 – bracket that could have been raping.
153:01 – There’s only a thousand men. Out of that
153:03 – thousand men, the police identified 200
153:05 – of them. We identify 250 odd. Then the
153:08 – independent inquiry which wasn’t
153:09 – statutory powered which if it had
153:11 – statuto power it means that so when when
153:13 – you see this argument going on now with
153:15 – the government and they’re on about
153:16 – doing an inquiry into the rate gangs and
153:18 – the government won’t give statutory
153:20 – power. So if the inquiry has statuto
153:22 – power it means the police the council
153:24 – all of them can be summoned to court
153:26 – under oath and then ask the questions.
153:29 – Yeah
153:30 – >> the government and this is where the
153:32 – insanity Sha Davies is the MP Shawn
153:34 – Davies is the MP for Telford. I watched
153:36 – him in parliament recently talking about
153:39 – um the need for this inquiry statutory
153:41 – power. I’ve got a letter that he signed
153:44 – he signed a letter to Amber Rudd. He
153:47 – signed a letter to block the inquiry and
153:49 – now he’s trying to rewrite history in
153:51 – parliament. I think no you blocked it.
153:53 – 10 I’ve got 10 of them. We called it the
153:54 – Telford 10. 10 of them signed a letter
153:57 – secretly all labor all counselors to
154:00 – block statutory power. So Telford had an
154:03 – inquiry that identified a thousand
154:04 – victims. It had no power. So the council
154:06 – and the police just ignored it. They
154:07 – didn’t give any evidence. They just
154:09 – stood back. So the only way the
154:10 – solicitors got the evidence with their
154:11 – inquiry was to sit the victims down like
154:13 – we done. Yeah. These these these
154:15 – investigations, if there’s an
154:16 – investigation now, if there’s a historic
154:18 – investigation in towns and cities, I
154:20 – think they’ve say five or six come
154:21 – forward. It has to have statutory power
154:24 – because no one can be exempt.
154:25 – Politicians need to tell the truth
154:28 – >> and and if they don’t, then they they’re
154:29 – viable for jail. Yeah. That’s that’s
154:30 – that’s where we’re going to get to the
154:32 – bottom of it. The reason why Labour
154:34 – won’t do that because councelor Hussein
154:36 – in Rodale went to court. Labour
154:38 – counselor went to court and gave a
154:39 – character reference for the rapist. The
154:41 – ex mayor of Bolton Muslim went to court
154:43 – and gave a character reference for the
154:44 – rapist. Yeah. They gave character
154:46 – references for the rapist. They didn’t
154:47 – lose their job in labor. They didn’t
154:48 – lose their position. They accelerated.
154:50 – What did um Sarah Champion trod speak
154:52 – about it? They got rid of her. She said
154:54 – about the Pakistani gangs. They ousted
154:56 – her, replaced her in Nashar, who was on
154:59 – record sharing tweets saying the the
155:00 – children and the victims need to shut
155:02 – their mouths for the sake of diversity.
155:03 – There has been a cover up, one of the
155:06 – the men in charge of Labour council for
155:07 – the g um for for for protecting kids, is
155:10 – in jail as one of the gang rapists.
155:14 – Councelor Jagler, this is the Roam case.
155:16 – Labour, he was the counselor. He was
155:18 – working with the gangs. All proven.
155:20 – Labour are in the middle of the these
155:22 – are we we we’ve got somewhere. They used
155:24 – to call them Asian gangs. Asian gangs.
155:26 – We got finally to Muslim gangs. They’re
155:28 – trying to call them Pakistani. They’re
155:29 – not. They’re Muslim.
155:31 – >> We need to get to Labour’s Muslim gangs
155:34 – cuz that’s what they were.
155:36 – >> Tommy, final question is always the
155:38 – same. Uh, what’s the one thing we’re not
155:40 – talking about as a society that we
155:42 – really should be?
155:43 – >> Before Tommy answers the final question,
155:45 – at the end of the interview, make sure
155:46 – you click the link in the description
155:48 – where you will see this.
155:49 – >> Through your journey, what has been the
155:51 – most bitter pill to swallow? What role
155:53 – do you think your social class and the
155:55 – way you express yourself plays in how
155:56 – elites and the political class have
155:58 – responded to you? So, can you share any
156:00 – stories of growing up in Luton around
156:01 – Stacy Douly and Andrew Tate?
156:04 – >> Yes.
156:05 – What’s the one thing we’re not talking
156:07 – about as a society that we really should
156:08 – be? Demographics.
156:11 – By 2041, white British are a minority in
156:14 – Brim. That’s not acceptable. It’s just
156:17 – not acceptable. Same way it wouldn’t be
156:18 – acceptable if black Nigerians become a
156:21 – minority in Nigeria. It’s not
156:23 – acceptable. It’s something we need to
156:24 – look at. We need to talk about massively
156:25 – because no one wants to talk about and
156:27 – we always hear as a minority is minority
156:29 – minority. No, it’s not. Not anymore. And
156:31 – when it becomes a majority in in towns
156:33 – and cities, the minority rights that
156:35 – protected them are not protecting our
156:36 – English kids. So, it’s not it’s not
156:38 – good. So, I think that the demographical
156:40 – change in towns and cities and the
156:42 – projected growth forecast rate
156:45 – accelerate. I see even Nigel Fage now
156:47 – saying he’s going to get rid of the two
156:48 – cap for benefits. No, you need to keep
156:50 – the two cap for benefits. My local
156:51 – imam’s got 14 kids with three wives. I
156:53 – don’t want to pay for that. And that’s
156:55 – and the Islamic community. If you look
156:56 – at the birth rate and the demographical
156:57 – change compared to the non the black
156:59 – community, the Hindu community, the seek
157:01 – community, there’s no explosion in
157:02 – demographical change.
157:03 – >> The explosion demographical change in
157:05 – this country is Islamic birth rate and
157:08 – Islamic immigration. We either stop it
157:11 – now or we’re going to be in a situation
157:12 – where we can’t. So that that now we’re
157:15 – running out of time. We’ll run out of
157:17 – time. I think we need direct democracy,
157:19 – but by 2041 we lose on direct democracy.
157:25 – Tommy,
157:26 – not necessarily in disagreement with you
157:28 – broadly speaking, but to a lot of people
157:31 – it will sound like there’s quite a bit
157:32 – of inconsistency with what you’re
157:33 – saying. On the one hand, you’re saying,
157:35 – you know, black, white, seek, call,
157:37 – gray, but then you’re saying
157:39 – >> I’m saying that England is a England is
157:40 – a is historically a white nation. It is.
157:43 – They cannot become a minority in their
157:44 – own nation. It just is. And unless you
157:46 – talk about this, you leave it to the
157:48 – ethnats and the Nazis. Unless you
157:50 – address because the majority of the
157:52 – public are worried by demographic
157:53 – change,
157:54 – >> the majority. It’s not racist. It’s not
157:56 – racist to say that England has to remain
157:57 – a majority white country. That’s not
157:59 – racist. And exactly the same like Japan
158:02 – should remain a majority Japanese
158:04 – nation. If it was changing, how come
158:06 – it’s only Western nations that have to
158:08 – accept this sort of diversity? Nowhere
158:10 – else has to. So unless you actually have
158:12 – this conversation and actually address
158:14 – the general public’s fears, you leave
158:16 – the only people talking about this as
158:18 – ethnoists and ethnationalists are
158:20 – growing in number, growing in
158:22 – confidence. And if they’re the only
158:24 – people addressing this this specific
158:26 – topic of a conversation, then you lead
158:28 – people to join them, listen to them, and
158:31 – be radicalized by them.
158:32 – >> But what’s but what I don’t understand
158:33 – is what’s the difference between their
158:34 – position and your position on this
158:36 – issue? You’re kind of basically saying
158:37 – the same thing, aren’t you?
158:38 – >> Uh, no. They’re saying that non-whites
158:40 – need to be expelled from this country.
158:42 – All of them. I’m saying that we need to
158:44 – address the Islamic demographic. I
158:45 – believe we need remigration of many of
158:47 – the so-called fake asylum seekers
158:48 – because they’re not asylum seekers.
158:49 – They’ve gone through 16 safe countries.
158:51 – They’ve come to this country. Any of all
158:53 – all the foreign nationals in prison,
158:54 – 12,000 of them got to go. Um anyone on
158:57 – the jihadi watch list got to go. There’s
158:59 – so many issues we should be doing. I’d
159:01 – stop the Qatari money. I’d stop the
159:03 – Iranian money. I’d stop it all. I’d stop
159:06 – the and and essentially so big raid
159:09 – again little example biglesade is a town
159:11 – near Luton there’s Muslims there that
159:13 – there’s no mosque they’re pretty well
159:14 – integrated pretty well integrated no
159:16 – extremism yeah there’s no Saudi funded
159:18 – or Qatari funded or Wahhabi funded or
159:20 – Salifi funded mosque which is promoting
159:22 – this insanity to all of them from a
159:24 – young age so I would love I I want
159:26 – freedom of speech for us I want freedom
159:27 – for everyone I want freedom for Muslims
159:29 – they need to leave Islam
159:31 – >> Tommy thank you very much thank you guys
159:34 – make sure to head over to subset where
159:35 – we’ll carry on the conversation with
159:37 – your questions.
159:38 – >> We do have we had more questions for you
159:40 – than any guest in the history of the
159:42 – show. Uh so there will be a lot of
159:44 – content behind uh behind that pay wall.
159:47 – So go on over there, subscribe, join our
159:49 – Substack, support the show, and you get
159:50 – to hear a good chunk of time with Tommy
159:52 – behind the payw wall. See you there.
159:56 – >> What’s one thing you wish your critics
159:57 – understood about your motivations? And
159:59 – is there anything you wish you could
160:00 – have done differently to limit the
160:02 – alienation that you have on some people?
160:05 – [Music]